D-Day Discussion
Use this post to discuss the election results as they come out.
May 16, 2009 | Filed Under Uncategorized
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234 Responses to “D-Day Discussion”
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really dnt knw what to expect!! hope BJP rules.
Wishing the BJP best of luck for the results. God Bless India.
Best of Luck India.I wish everybody best of luck. May God bless us a Solid Governmnet.
Chandigarh. Congress coming up
Ferozepur; Akalidal alredy started celebrations
Jalandhar: Congress up according to local Media report
Haryana; Congress ruling out any damage by Bhajan Lal
Cell phone are ringing in Harayan with smile on face of people of Congress
Onlin report from Ludhiana Akalidal+ BJP got good start
Faridkot Congress happy with start of counting
Ferozepur; People from same caste of NDA candidate who polled 83% vote from the villages are celebrating
Patiala; Capt Amrinder’s wife from Congress leading marginaly
BJP to open account in punjab
BJP might win all 4 seats in Himachal
Wish you all the best BJP … Pl god pl …. BJP shud win
Vinod Khana is unexpectedly leading from Gurdaspur Punjab. He is BJP candidate
I thought Vinod Khanna was the favorite - well, seems like Lalu is trailing
Amritsar: Sidhu is still waiting
Sidhu off the mark in amritsar with a good lead
I am very surprised that Congress+ is leading in Tamilnadu …
NDA fails all survey in Punjab
Varun Gandhi leading in Pilibhit, P Chidambaram trailing in Tamilnadu
Wait for Delhi, Chandni chownk, West Delhi, new Delhi and North east Delhi may go to BJP
Congressn starts beating sidhu for the time being
UPA is having 40+ lead over the NDA wud it reverse? It shud!
Sidhu regains confidence
Ferozepur NDA candidate throwing all the surveys in garbage leading with more than 7000 votes
Jalandhar: NDA candidate breaking myth of local Media leading with 4000 votes
Overall in Punjab neck to neck surveys fail
Chandigarh; Bansal of congress coming up as expected
Bathida: THE MOST CRUCIAL SEAT OF PUNJAB NDA LEADING, BUT FIGHT IS ON
LUDHIANA; CONGRESS UNEXPECTIDLY GAINING
NDA is far behind UPA. these r nt gud signs.
Looks like It’s COngress COngress everywhere.
I am terribly disappointed ….. congress leading by a huge margin? Can anyone throwing light on what are the states yet to be counted ?
The official site of ECI http://www.eciresults.nic.in is down. Good example of how pathetic our IT infrastructure is.
nt gud signs fr india…
The apparent huge margin everywhere is just by couple of thousand votes here and there. I dont think its the time yet to press the panic button.
The best things that is happening is that the regional parties are losing the ground.
Also the state election results in Orisaa etc might mean new political equations.
Goa results expected by 11:30 though only two seats.
What the heck is happening? Looks like Congies wil win on their own! Hail Navin Chawla, if that happens!
can someone please tell me can these trends be reversed..please reply with any credible information..
i think comgress surging ahead too fast….UPa comin back it seems
Should I panic???
logging off!!! the result isn’t surprising, we were slaves for 600+ years remember?
nda lost
This is a disappointing result - hopefully, we learn from this and move on - BJP needs to articlate its policies clearly on every topic and show the clear difference. We will have to hit back at the communal tag that people give. India needs development and stability - any more discussion on securalism is waste of time for a country where majority of people are under the poverty line. Lets get focus on governance and policies only and then we shall see.
MEDIA WINS INDIA LOSES
YOU CAN THANK ARNAB,RAJDEEP,BARKHA AND CHAWLA FOR SELLING THE COUNTRY.
THEY DID A FINE JOB OF ENSURING THAT NO RELEVANT ISSUE WAS EVER DISCUSSED
GET READY FOR
a)HYPERINFLATION AND 13% DEFICIT
b)NAXALS FROM UP TO TN
c)MINIPAKISTAN’S FROM AZAMGARH TO ASSAM
d)PERRENIAL SLAVERY TO THE FAKE GANDHI CLAN
e)KASAB’s BHARATH RATNA
Ouch!
This loss hurts…
Saddest day in my life..
I think it is time to build our own and hell with coalition politics.
Its a shame that the BJP isn’t even getting anywhere close to staking a claim to form the government.
Saddest day in mylife may in Advani’s life,It is unfortunate that people are voting based on the local issues rather than naional issues.
As some bosy said we are slaves of 1000 years still continuing that.unforunate thing for our country .Media is spoiler no one else .Burkha dutt and Rajdeep and Arnab all other media people can have party now use less journalists.
Our country is back wards by 10 years
Heck time for Hindu Militancy. SUARDESAI’S, SUARKA GOST, SORRY SAGARIKA GHOSH, PILLA PROONOY ROY AND HIS TWO KEEPS JENIIFER ARUL AND THE HAREM MEMBER BURQUA DUTT SHUD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BREATHE IN INDIA. THESE TRAITOR GUTTER PIGS ARE CAUSE OF SWINE FLU FROM ITALY
UNITED SNAKES OF AMERI-KKK-A AND VATICAN OPUS DI WITH THE HELP OF 5 PAISA CONVERTED SWINES LIKE SUARDESAI’S, CHAWLAS, SUZZANE GHOSH, AND OTHER CALLGIRLS AND GIGOLOS HAVE CHEATED THE ELCTIONS. IT IS A FARCE. PICK UP WEAPONS AGAINST THE WHITE XIAN KKKan IMPERIALISM, WAHT THESE FILTHY WHITE ANIMALS CUD NOT ACHIEVE WITH GUNS AND BOMBS THEY ARE DOING WITH HELP OD SMELLY, FILTHY, STINKING WHITE AND XIAN CUNTS
Diasapponinted to the Core maaan!
No Future or this country….
I can already hear beer glasses clinging in the UPA camp! Prannoy roy seems over joyed…
What the hell is happening?
BJP was very buoyant till today morning of winning 166 on their own and now look at this?
I dont believe this?
BJP sud now need 2 do 3 main things in next 5yrs.
1. expand base in states where it doesnt have presence mostly in south. bjp can do well in andhra fr sure.
2. try 2 get some muslim n christian vote. make clear 2 everyone dat u r nt communal. everytime one alleges bjp to b a communal party, it dont clear. a wrong msg goes to ppl.
3. bring some youth face. modi will be a gud choice.
very very bad day. BJP will never be allowed in this country to form the Govt.
Very Sad day today!!! Now we have to vow that we will change the country completely in whatever manner we personally can. Most ppl DO NOT KNOW what is Right for them, so they take wrong decisions. N we are seeing the results of these wrong decisions today. There r many things we can do individually to change the tendency of the people - to educate them, so they at least make an attempt to do what is right.
I really had nurtured the dream of seeing Advaniji as our PM one day. I guess that dream’s been shattered completely now. But Sir all your hard work and effort wont go in vain. We will re-build the Bharat-varsh of your dream (our dream) very soon.
The news of Subramanium Swamy about the White barbarians sitting in a 5 star hotel in Delhi, invited by the 2 bit Barmaid from Italy to set up the Voting machines from US for Congress advantage were correct. The paltoo dog of Italy P.Chidambram did not allow RAW to enter the hotel. THE BLOODY XIAN-VATICAN MAFIOSI AND ITS GUTTER SLAVES THE DOGS LIKE PRONOY ROY AND SUARDESAI HAVE CHEATED THE ELECTIONS. TIME TO SEE THEY AND THEIR FAMILIES MEET THE FATE OF TRAITORS.
ANYWAY NOW WAIT FOR VATICAN FINANCED BOMB BLASTS AND MAOIST VIOLENCE. JUST HOPE THAT THE TALIBAAN KILLS THE CONGRESS VOTERS IN A BIG WAY. BY THE WAY HINDUS SHUD NOW EN MASS EMBRACE ISLAM SO THAT THIS VILE, EVIL ABOMINABLE XIANS CAN BE WIPED OFF INDIA AND THE WIDE ISLAMIST-CHINA ARCH WILL SEND THE WHITE AMERI-KKK-AN CRUSADER ANIMALS TO GUTTERS
In my opinion, BJP should never wander away from its roots. I don’t care if people call us communal… because they will eat their words one day. It is a fact that Bharat is one and all the minorities and other nations of the Subcontinent have been created by forceful and/or deceitful conversion of people. If we really want to do something… we should make an earnest attempt to help these ppl, whose poor ancestors had been brutally converted, come back to the fold. The Eternal Law will always prevail and all wise beings know that.
Instead of advising BJP wat to do, we should engage ourselves in the task of Jan Jagriti by all means available to us.
Now a positive note - BJP is giving a great fight for 3 seats in West Bengal and should win atleast 2 - that is unprecented folks! We also finally fulfilled our promise in Assam. We were in for 1 seat in TN again a very unchartered territory.
I guess the trends are beginning to stabilise now… so perhaps the time has come to accept defeat.
Naresh: Yes never wander from its roots and and never get elected either! we need to change the focus from religion to governance and build the party in states like Andhra, TN etc. what is the BJP doing in these states?? how do you expect to win the elections if you dont work on building the party?
We all should play our part and do something about this
Modiji seems to be delivering Gujarat yet again
So what do we have here? 5 more years of non governance and prostate in front of the same family. All while my nation crumbles under a multi pronged attack of evangelists, communists and the China-Pakistan alliance while my government is in convenient denial. Don’t think I can make it. Give me some cyanide, or at least a lighter so I may burn my Indian passport for god’s sake.
Arun Srivastava - Hindutva is not just a religion (wrong translation used by the Westerners for Dharm, which means the Law which upholds righteousness) - it is a complete (and scientific) way of life - Governance, administration included… If we want to win, we dont have to change our ideology… we have to make more people believe in our ideology, including those who have been forcefully distracted away from the correct way of life… the objective is not just to form the govt by all means, but to make the ideology win - to let go of narrow notions of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, etc, and let Bharat start blooming in the hearts of all the native inhabitants of this land, which happens to be the birthplace of civilization.
To bring about change may be a coffee-table discussion for many. But change doesnt happen that way. It requires a higher commitment at a personal level. So guys, pls stop advising BJP about what they should do. Do what you think is right, in your own personal capacity. Everything will fall in place then. In case you do not know what is appropriate in any situation, try to find out… do not accept comfortable conclusions - let your mind challenge each and every thing you believe in and find the right reasons for your views/opinions. Once you have the right reasons for your conduct and action, it’s very seldom that you will go wrong or digress from your chosen path even under the worst levels of coercion or persuasion.
We dont want to form just a government, we want to create a nation full of committed, strong people who have a very sound and unwavering judgment of things.
Ladies and gents, this is called ROTTEN DEMOCRACY.
Yup, we have become so rotten to the core, only god can save us now. The death knell of Indian civilization has been sounded, it is now a lost cause to teach this ‘heathen’ nation.
I can already imagine ‘Bharat Mata’ reaching for her revolver.
Is it the case that Naveen Chawla delivered for Congress? Congress is touching 200 on its own. Way beyond their own exit polls. Look at Rajasthan, UP, AP, MH, TN. Unbelievable. Even Congress in their wildest dream never thought about such a victory. There is no basis for it. After delivering such a pathatic governance for 5 years, I have never seen somebody being rewarded like this. A greater conspiracy theory can not be rulled out completely..
Very sad day for me personally. I wished Indians will give a verdict for change. I am ashamed to be an Indian living in America for yielding to media’s tricks and congress tricks. We have a slave mentality no doubt. I just can’t imagine to see Sonia and Manmohan for another 5 years. Indians suck.. They deserved to be ruled by white people. Hell with Indians. My country men are slaves of white men and foreigners . Media is disgusting……
I pray for reelections very soon.
What did you do India? All the internet polls were showing Advani Ji as most popular PM candidate, then what happened now? It seems educated people aren’t voting.
I agree with you skg…..Indians really have slave mentality. Slaves of white skin. I really don’t feel proud to be an Indian today.
we, indians, deserve an inept government. Now what…Arunachal pradesh will goto china, more naxalite violence, evangelicals in haryana, punjab, delhi, converting openly..
Thank you very much Mr. Advani. Because of your irrational and stubborn lust for being the prime minister we have to live under a corrupt regime for another 5 years. Because of you there is no hope for the ‘real’ common man like me in this country now.
And somebody please get rid of Mr. Rajnath Singh. How many elections must be lost under his non-existant leadership before he is shown the door?
There are far far more brilliant politicians in the BJP, who are simply being wasted because of the personal ambitions of the few. Please mend your ways.
The Advani-Singh dual creature has undone what Vajpayee ji did. The two of you, put on a a dhoti and janeyu, and go spend the last of your days at the ganga ghat as a penance. Please leave us alone. You are the killers of our hopes.
FOR SHAME.
the fact is that the so called ‘minorities’are no longer minorities, and these groups are extemely communal. they vote exclusively to eliminate the bjp cadidate irrespective of performance.
Cannot bear to see another Gandhi as our PM..
Of course Sidharth that is a fact. But it is our ‘need’ to reach out to them and make them see how Congress is fooling them.
Does anybody seriously believe that giving reservations is going to benefit a community? What is needed is primary schools butthe sarv-shiksha abhiyaan was rolled back for want of funds. while thousands of crores were spent on reservation.
Did BJP take a clear stand on this? No. they kept dilly-dallying and finally decided to tow the Congress’ line.
And there are so many similar issues. BJP never manages to catch any opportunities because they just don’t know how to! They should take lessons from Mr. Modi. Now ‘he’ is a statesman.
The Congress isn’t going anywhere. No re-elections are probable. So dear friends, good night. It’s going to be a long dark night, with things going bump every so often.
We’ll meet after 5 years, if we survive.
Meanwhile, Mr. Advani, your crow is ready. Bon Apetit.
Very sad indeed….never expected that India would reward the most communal/opportunistic and inept govt in this way…
Where do I go from here? Loose my job because this govt might arm-twist private sector to give reservations? Die in a terrorist bomb blast? Fall into debt because of sky rocketing prices? Forcefully converted to some other faith some day?
Weep…Bharat..weep..
Dump this ji in Advaniji. That is what makes all the difference.BJP promised all its ‘visions’ at the 11th hour. Now focus on making that more credible and force the government to perform as a responsible opposition. Make the party more democratic. Promote intra party democracy at all levels.Make the friends of BJP more localised having state chapters. Continue with this experiment for the State level elections. Governance is not only about ruling. A credible opposition can also make a difference to the governance.
Akshat…the reality is that the media downplayed every positive aspect of the BJP..while glorifying priyanka vadedra’s sarees….the BJP should atleast form an effective opposition and prevent the fake gandhi clan from selling out to CHINA
@Arun
Very wisely said Arun. I agree with you totally about giving a credible opposition. Anyway we do not have any other option, but at least we should not be missing opposition as we have been during this last Gandhi government. Here we can take a lesson from how Congress was a constant thorn in the side of the last BJP government. And they really did build credibility then.
The BJP needs to build a presence in the South, it cant stay content having Karnataka and leaving the rest to alliances. There is a vote-bank out there that it needs to carve our for itself. Alsi, I believe that the BJP needs to articulate its plan in a crystal-clear fashion to the people.In the short-term, only a drastic event (such as Ayodhya) can spring back the BJP, but thats going to be a short term measure. Now we know how long the Yatra lasted in the public memory. The silver lining is that the BJP gained in citadels of the Left — 2 seats in WB–now, thats a start, remember it started with 2 seats in Parliament. If it can do that then why not replicate it in states like Kerela, TN and AP.
Well, the results are out …..
and hope the BJP workers and the Friends of BJP will pause and read the writing on the wall. Their self denial. refusal to introspect, overconfidence, over dependence on mudslinging, over criticism of others and belitting others I hope will dawn on them. Lets hope atleast now, the leader and the projected PM will step down and leave the mantle to others to reshape and rekindle, and not allow his selfish mind to lead the party to its disappearance.
pathetic disgusting performance by bjp. have to give some credit to congress reachin 190+ on their own.attacking mms and karkare was the biggest blunder bjp did.
These results show clearly that leaders of BJP/NDA have not been able to judge the undercurrent for Congress. This is a clear mandate in favour of Congress Party. BJP leadership is not inspiring enough, is the fact. As fast as the leadership accepts this fact, it is better for BJP’s bounce back. It will be interesting to see how BJP fights back in the coming Assembly elections now.
Also,now the UPA with the support of its leftist and secular allies would probably throw Modi in jail..since that seems to be the only way for them in Gujrat
Indians became friends of Congres…Because India deserves the worst… hahaha!!!
We need strong orgnizational changes in Delhi BJP….specially we should make all old war horse sit on side and make BJP a real youth power….and we need to concentrate hard on UP,Rajasthan,TN,AP and bengal…..
my reveiw is …muslims voted against BJP..just to make bjp to loose
Let’s not lose heart
I know these are dark times, and darker ones lie ahead. But we are all united here by this forum, and it would be a shame to let all this energy and momentum go to waste.
So what if our party lost? Let’s all join hands and ‘do’ something. Anybody remember the ‘each one teach one’ idea? Let’s do good work people, and bide our time until the next duel
Smile, for the righteous shall inherit the earth
Let us show them we are strong enough to smile in the face of defeat, lick our wounds and rise up to win the next battle whenever, and wherever it comes 
What Brits barbarian hordes could not do the ITALIAN-VATICUNT-KHALISTANI-MARXIST Cunts have done. THERE IS A CLEAR CONSPIRACY THIS ELECTION HAS BEEN CHEATED AND CHAWALISED. INDIANS IF ANY SHUD REACH FOR AK-47s NOW. CHAWLA WITH THE HELP OF FAKE AND MANIPULATED EVMs AND ENEMIES OF INDIA (LED BY XIANS AND SECULARS)HAS DONE HIS JOB. SUARDESAI WUD BE MOST HAPPY
@Bikash
Calm down buddy. You don’t really mean what you are saying.
Let’s stop blaming others for our failing. We have to become stronger and better. And by god we will
Forget the Ak-47s. Just raise your hands, and use them to do good. The people won’t forget.
Most of the comments that I see here are ‘typical BJP’. A totally misplaced arrogance, contempt for the opposition and refusal to read the obvious writing on the wall. I am myself a BJP supporter but dont agree with most of what is posted here.
Let us give credit where it is due. It has been a clear verdict in favour of the the Congress and the UPA. They did well not to repeat the BJP mistake of 2004 and lose an election they were expected to win. Let us learn and think positively for the future of BJP and India.
The way BJP (and we) basically did nothing while in opposition has played a major part in this reversal. Lets face it, there was no clarity to what the BJP stood for during this time, and in-fighting also took its toll. Strategy for 2014
1.) Absolute agreement in BJP/RSS etc on Narendra Modi’s leadership
2.) Advaniji shld gracefully retire..hes already 81. This will further strenghten BJPs democratic credentials, smooth transition to next gen.
3.) Nationalism, good governance, intra-party democracy, reform is the key differentiator for BJP…this is what has to be drummed into the mind of people. Guj growth story is the trump card - create similar stories in other BJP ruled states (K’nataka etc)
4.) Creation of a shadow ministry with proper selection of candidates - external affairs, finance, defence etc. These shadow ministers should evolve detailed plans to address concerns in their areas, and closely monitor what the next govt does, raise issues in parliament etc. We need to induct some new blood for roles like finance.
5.) Strenghtne PR and media relations - 60-70% of electorate doesn’t watch the cable news channels, so their impact is overplayed. Focus on vernacular press, and be asssertive and prepare thoroughly while facing media - identify key spokepersons and train them in ideological & policy areas….above all, stay calm in face of provocation. Seriously explore option of launching a nationalist conservative TV channel - make sure its content and presentation sets it apart from today’s fish market media.
6.) Focus on south (TN, AP), UP, Bihar, Rajasthan
6.) Be responsible in opposition - don’t oppose for the sake of it!
7.) Hindutva is integral, but no point in stressing on that until we can lift majority of Indians out of poverty…first things first!
8.) RSS and Sangh Parivar shld constantly explain concept of Hindutva- that it is not racist, ‘communal’, or anti-Muslim/Christian…it calls for pride in the country’s ethos, accepts flaws in Hindu society (caste etc), and only demands that other religions show the same respect to Hinduism which is offered to them. Lumpen elements of Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sene to be marginalized. Explain the case for Kashi, Ayodhya, Mathura temples in logical fashion.
Akshat
Are you in India? we need a channel in India like Fox news in the united states that is nationalistic to a fault. Something has to be done to counter this biased media..
Siddharth, no point blaming the media for what is essentially a defeat on the ground. Agreed that the ‘English Media’ is largely Pro Congress but they matter for only a fraction of the overall result. It is more a BJP leadership failure to inspire and implement a winning strategy.
I agree with Vikram. The BJP needs to very clearly identify areas of improvement. If the Congress/UPA got this number, there has to be a reason they were successful. I’m sure the BJP will give credit to the BJP if it were to be a responsible opposition and not one that looks to jump in the well of the House at the drop of a hat. They have got to clearly explain to the people their stand on various issues if they differ with the government. It needs to utilise these 5 years to strengthen itself in different states. Also, it should counter its ‘communal’ image very vehemently irrespective of what the media might say.
S.Joshi
What do you expect…there are some links on youtube showing how some imams and bishops in certain states were issuing fatwas on anybody voting for BJP..So please tell me how did the UPA inspire the electorate. their winning strategy was complete when they awarded scum like rajdeep a padmasri..
I am absolutely shocked and appalled at the verdict people of Bharat (if its not rigged that is). 190 seats to congress even after ridiculous manifesto, dynastic politics, over 45 terrorist attacks, worst recession ever in 60 years, no finance minister for 150 days, openly Anti-Hindu stand, divisive policies to destroy and toxify education, devaluation of constitutional bodies, unimaginable corruption, etc.
I mean even one of these issues in any sensible society will be a reason enough to throw out the incumbent govt. But no, Bharatvaasi choose to give them almost full majority and less than 100 seats to BJP.
I am sorry to say but India’s future is doomed. We seriously need to continue with our efforts to save it.
This thread is a good place to gather feedback for the future course of action.But comments suffer from the malady of high on rhetoric and low on content which sadly is true of top BJP leadership as well. These elecions have a positive side as well. We got rid of Ramdoss and hopefully will get rid of more deadwood. The accusation of weak PM will force Manmohan to assert himself and perform better.Allies like DMK and NCP will have less leverage as they can be readily replaced. Expect lesser number of non performin DMK ministers and more accountability from them. Hope that Mamta does not get the Railway ministry back.
indian ppl are very kind.
they ensured dat afjal guru now will live 5 more years.
but we hv 2 accept d truth dat we lost due 2 some of our faults. we need 2 rectify them.
1. cudnt expand our base in last 5yrs. entered in karnatak but lost rajasthan n orissa.
2. we werent clear on dif. issues while in opposition.
3. we cudnt show d country dat what we achieved during our govt. and in gujrat.
4. we dint hav any youth leader to counter rahul gandhi. so many young voters got distracted.
5. we cudnt win hearts of muslim n christians by ensuring there security. hindutva never means to hurt other religion.
@Sidharth
I’m in India at the moment.
@Sidharth Joshi, Vikram, N Shah
You guys reflect my thoughts entirely. As so many people have said, the writing is on the wall. If the electorate has rejected us then there has to be a reason for it. And we have to fix all that.
The Congress ‘is’ responsible for the various fatwas and stuff because they are the ones who started this whole pseudo-secular coterie and drumming fear into the minds of the minorities. It’s ‘our’, ‘BJP’’s responsibilities to show them that we actually are their well-wishers and not those who will take their votes by simply raising the spectre of communal politics.
the thing is that among all the people who have commented on this blog, who will actually take some concrete action..join politics, create awareness etc..
Sad Day Indeed..
I think it is time for BJP to infuse Young blood into its veins and like someone had said,start working from today till the next elections.The first 4 years of Manmohan singh (04-08) it was the left which behaved like the opposition and not us!
Kailash, I agree with part of your comment that momentum for elections is built up over a period of time and not last minute like we had hoped.
Not sure how many of us have actually noticed, but this is all set to be BJPs lowest seat tally in the last four elections (not counting the other NDA Partners). I dont have the exact numbers but think it was 162, then 183 and even in 2004 which was considered a ‘bad’ result for BJP was 145! Not a good sign…
I think we have again started the blame game that we did after the 2004 loss. Here we are again blaming Navin Chawla, Media and what not. Had media been responsible then we would have never attained power at any point. Of course these fatwas etc were there at that point of time also. Awake, open your eyes and see if you have the right approach, right agenda and right intent.
The Indian citizenry has delivered us a thumping defeat. Of that there is little doubt. Now, the BJP needs to have a single minded focus on 2014 and restablishing its legitimacy as a viable national party.
We also have to see if spending half our energies on asking for death to Afzal Guru, blaming Congress for the Sikh Riots, bugelling at terrorism, bickering about Ram Sethu etc, weak prime minister….are actually worth it. Where is the agenda for the people…the agenda for common man.
Everyone who talks about changing the attitude and stuff like that needs to understand the the so-called minorities will NEVER EVER vote for BJP, unless of course, the BJP also jumps the Pseudo Secular Band wagon. N I think we should not worry about them as they constitute only 20% (on paper that is) of Indian population. If anything, we should focus on uniting and organising the Hindus and should try to bring back to the fold, by persuasion and logic, all the minority people, who have only been exploited after they were forcefully/deceitfully converted. I am against all the taamsik attitudes that people like SRS and BD hold, but mebbe they are currently needed to counter such forces on the other side. The members of BD and SRS and all the practitioners of the Hindu way of life have to be taught the true teachings of Hindutva. We have reached this stage coz most of those who call themselves Hindu are Hindus only for namesake. Most dont even know what the Bhagwad Geeta (our most popular holy scripture) talks about, forget about any other scriptures - because we were never initiated in that direction. The education system sucks and instills anti-dharmic thoughts in us from the beginning. Most english schools, which happen to be run by convent organizations, do this to kids at a very tender age. The result is that we get people whose names sound like those of Hindus, but whose mind and thoughts have been completely converted.
Remember that awareness only will inspire the minds. Inspired minds only will improve lives.
after todays ppl verdict i hv decided 2 tk part in politics actively and work for bjp. i am frm orissa n bjp is totally diminished in these elections. we lost here our own 7 seats and lost our ally bjds 11. this tym bjd won 15 on its own.
Kudos to Dibyasundar. Thats the right attitude.
Yes Dibyasunder, Most ppl who are posting here will forget about this in a few days.
But I would definitely start working towards realizing what I believe in. Who all can pledge here that they would make an ongoing attempt to implement what they are talking here about.
I am also planning to join active politics in big way
At the cost of being repetitive, the BJP needs to learn what clicked for the Congress. I don’t mean to shy away from giving credit to the Congress for its victory but not all of it came from people-friendly policies, a lot of it had to do with forging the right aliances and delivering its message to the people. The BJP needs to reinvent itself as a party that is genuinely interested in setting an agenda for development–the politics can follow later.
The Indian citizenry has delivered us a thumping defeat. Of that there is little doubt. Now, the BJP needs to have a single minded focus on 2014 and reestablish its legitimacy as a viable national party.
Advani cannot be a part of this combine. His leadership has been ineffectual from the beginning. His personality doesn’t inspire the Indian voter and he has allowed factionalism to flourish. Moroever, he was far from the ‘mazboot neta’ that the BJP media strategists would have you to believe. He allowed Rajnath Singh to create an alternate centre of power within the BJP and consistently undermine party unity (See my post on this: http://vijayum.blogspot.com/2009/02/babri-masjid-or-ram-madir-which-is-it.html)
The fact is, the BJP’s NDA/Vajpayee moment is over. Advani was just a stopgap. The party needs to do some soul-searching and choose to emerge as a mainstream centre-right party. It shall of course face calls by reactionaries to return to the core Hindutva constituency - a back to basics approach that was championed by Rajnath Singh in the aftermath of the shocking defeat of 2004.
The BJP needs to decide on a clear national leader. As far as I can see there are only two people for that job - Narendra Modi and Arun Jaitley. I would infinitely prefer the latter. Despite his perceived aversion to mass politics I think Jaitley can be persuaded into a leadership role - most likely as Party President.
Anyway, as Jaitley himself said - “We ran a positive campaign. We campaigned against the mismanagement of the economy, the mismanagement of national security and the need for a strong leadership.”
The only problem was the BJP didn’t have a strong leader of their own to offer.
A question for Siddarth:
Are you in United States? You think FOX news is nationalistic and that there message resonates with the vast majority of Americans?!!! That must be the reason why Obama, under constant attacks from FOX during the elections, is President. Would love to know what you mean by Nationalism/Patriotism.
Naresh: Keep talking about your esoteric grand vision and tying down Hinduism within the containment and limits of what YOU decide is Righteous without any input from people who may think or experience differently in a diverse country. Carry on with this desire to ‘reconvert’ people who have been forcefully converted. Many of whom, interestingly enough, may not want to be reconverted having taken the only out they were offered to escape a subhuman life of neglect, disdain and untouchability - and then what is your plan - ‘reconvert’ forcefully.
Keep pressing on, and in the end there will be you and fifteen other ‘believers’ blaming it ALL exclusively on the media and Navin Chawla and all those who did not vote BJP, and that will be that - no introspection required. I for one just got news on some relatives, who much to my chagrin, voted Congress because they did not get all that is good about the BJP development agenda as nobody focused on it persistently including the party. Furthermore it is all overshadowed by the ‘insider-outsider’,'us vs.them’ spirit associated with the party, reflected even in posts here, that has nothing to do with constructively challenging and countering unevenhanded, hypocritical Congress policies, general indifference and incompetence but blame fixing and bad mouthing - makes a number of people very wary.
The loss of BJP is the loss of all of us - “the friends of BJP.” Unless we don’t take this personally, we as individuals would not be instrumental in bringing the change that we seek. In fact I laughed when Priya Dutt said on the TV that people of India like that in the USA had voted for CHANGE (read Obama)…what’s the change that we had voted?
First of all the election turnouts were dismal in metros and the urban centric locales…because we educated lot were cynical and did not take an informed decision. Rather, we were selfish, indulgent and ABOVE ALL CYNICAL…we preferred to have a holiday rather than do our duty of voting
As far as the non-urban locations are concerned, the community is extremely fragmented. How many of them are “aware” citizens is something that I wish to question. Balls…India made a an “informed” decision. India made an “influenced” decision. Decisions coloured by Priyanka’s colourful sarees!!
BJP lost because it today does neither have an identity nor an ideology. Lets face it. They are positioned today as CONFUSED and not CONFIDENT. Here somebody wrote that they should forget being communal. Who is communal here? Please analyse…those who have won the elections by killing your pride and your individualism/identity every time of the day? or those who had somewhere at somepoint of time tried to bring the truth of this country’s heritage which shapes us as individuals today? Who is communal here? Those who want different laws for different religious sects or those who say that the law should be above religion and should be equal for all??
My analysis? BJP has lost its Dharma…its ideology of righteousness. It started behaving in a schizophrenic manner trying to stand on borrowed ideologies…wincing in pain every time a communal remark was thrown at them by the enemies…and very feebly whining that they were NOT communal. BJP lost because it did not have its “majboot neta” majboot enough to have the courage and say…yes I am a Hindu and am proud of being one and all those allegations that media and the congress/pro-congress is throwing at us is utterly baseless. Instead of demanding a debate with the percepttually “clean” Manmahona Singh…he should have demanded a debate with all media.
Shri Krishna is the Bhagwad Geeta has said - Swadharma paramo dharma para dharma bhayaavaha.
Well said Dibyasunder!
Let us all get together from this day onwards and work for all we are worth!
Akshat:
You are a smart person. Took the words right out of my mouth, so I just want to repeat your post verbatim as affirmation with due credit to you.
Does anybody seriously believe that giving reservations is going to benefit a community? What is needed is primary schools but the sarv-shiksha abhiyaan was rolled back for want of funds. while thousands of crores were spent on reservation.
Did BJP take a clear stand on this? No. they kept dilly-dallying and finally decided to tow the Congress’ line.
And there are so many similar issues. BJP never manages to catch any opportunities because they just don’t know how to! They should take lessons from Mr. Modi. Now ‘he’ is a statesman.
Its sad that BJP didn’t make it. I think there are following problems with BJP which are needed to be solved for getting its popularity back -
1. Bjp need’s to promote its thinking clearly. Either it has to so called “SECULAR” or it has to be “HARDCORE PROHINDU ” . It can’t go on with its legs on two boats.
2. We need more youth oriented programs and more young leaders to counter Rahul Gandhi and his youth brigade.
3. It must stop giving tickets to criminals.
4. BJP has in many cases not expressed its stand on different issues clearly as the main opposition party.
Perfect Guide to Election rigging
EVM’s map buttons to counters that increment a party’s tally.
There are 2 ways to rig the system
1)Change the order of parties on the sticker.
So if a person thinks they have voted for party A, it is actually party B’s tally that is incremented.
2)Rewire the evm so that when button 2 is pressed, it is actually party 1’s tally that is incremented.
Both are delightfully simple and require no violence or booth capturing.
These are all possibilites which could arise if the CEC is not trustworthy.
Iam disgusted to the core!! I mean Vajpayeeji delivered during his 6 yr tenure and then we got 138 seats, UPA’s performance was average if not bad and they get199 seats!!! so how rational/irrational is that? After 2004 elections I was wonderin how and why NDA lost and now I wud wonder how and why Congress won!!!
Its a long long road ahead and there are possiblities that JDU will dump us in Bihar, I think its in the best interest of the party to ask Narendra Modi to resign as Gujrat CM and take over the reign as Leader of Opposition and keep the heat on the UPA through out.This ofcourse would hurt in the short term but by 2014 it shud be alrite.
It seems people are not much enthused by the promises of building(be it temple or roads) so by the time of next election search for a potential whatever that we can collectively bring down (just kidding!!)
@shyam I cant agree with you more, the EVM is the most suspicious and easy to tamper with equipment.
This is the only thought that comes to my mind that the EVMs have been played around with. I was quite convinced pesonally of an NDA government after seeing staggering amount of netizens against the non-performing UPA government, such a loss is unacceptable. There was a certain anti congress wave in the nation
on accounts of terrorism, reservations and price rise.
By the way, dont you guys think that the Varun Gandhi issue was overblown by the english media which started making people thinking of the ’secular’ credentials of the party? Is the Varun gandhi episode responsible to a great deal for our loss?
@the count
Im telling you the machine were played around with, an average performing governmnet cant be rewarded to such an extent by the people.
Initial assessment of a local supporter (pre counting and post counting) for Delhi and mumbai.
In Delhi it could be pretty evident as I raised it while LK Advani campaign and other interactions that we have
week organization on ground level due to non availability and interaction of councilor and MLA’s in Delhi.We need
youth to take helm of Delhi Affairs and make every MLA and Councilor accountable for there work from today onwards.
So its not too late be it next MCD elections or any other elections. We need to get on to with social engineering in Delhi
and else where in India and start some social work with support of BJYM.
and there are several other inputs One could provide.
In regards with Maharastra most of Seats BJP+ has lost is due to MNS one could check the results and votes margin
and votes gained by MNS. Now BJP/SS has to look upon this factor and so as MNS what do they want from upcoming
elections in September..all three should come together…..project a young CM acceptable to all three parties and
show cause a strong show in upcoming elections.
Dear Friends
I am sure that JDU will dump BJP in next Assmbly Election, so BJP should take note of this and strength its organisational there, otherwise Bihar will be another Orissa for BJP.
Subramanium Swamy had warned before the elections that the WHITE VATICAN OPUS DI XIAN TERRORIST AND BARBARIANS FROM XIAN WILD WEST were called by the ITALIAN IMPOSTER to tamper with EVMs. They were lodeged in a 5 star hotel in Delhi to tamper with EVMs and even RAW offcials were stopped personally by the crypto Xian TRAITOR P.CHIDAMBRAM. The election has been stolen with the help of CRUSADER XIAN UNITED SNAKES OF AMERI-KKK-AA which thrives on bloodshed and claok and draggee methods. So while Putin or Chavez fights 3rd time it becomes dictatorship to the filthy, smelly White AMERI-CUNT XIAN SONIA MAINO and her piglets can fight n number of times with the help of VATI-CUNT AND OPUS DI.
THIS IS A BIG XIAN CONSPIRACY, THIS ELECTION IS A FAKE. THE 5 PAISA CONVERTED DOGS TO ASURIC XIANITY LIKE THE GUTTER PIG PRONOY AND HIS KEEP BURQUA DUTT ARE GLOATING. THEY WUD NOW BE BILLIONARES.
ASURIC, TAMASIK XIANITY NEEDS TO BE WIPED FROM INDIA
The fact that sends a chill down my spine is how the media & congies are going to take this win? MMS is on record saying muslims must have the first right on our countries resources, DMK has been openly insulting Hindus, We had the most incompetent home minister for 4 1/2 yrs. I mean jst think of it– they have a clear mandate so they have every rite to go on and on with minority appeasement , there will more bleeding hearts for the cause of jehadis– are Indians so sadistic? do we hate our neighbours(neighbours as in real neighbour ) so much that we dont want to see them prosper but to die in a terror attack?
THE FILTHY AMERI-CUNT WHICH THRIVES ON “WARS AND GENOCIDES” (TYPICAL ASURIC XIAN TRAIT) FIRST WAR ON COMMUNISM, THEN WAR AGAINST ISLAM IN THE NAME OF TERROR, THEN WAR ON BUDDHISM DURING WWII NUKING OF JAPAN AND NOW WAR ON HINDUISM. WE SHUID ALLY WITH ISLAM AND TAALIBAAN NOW TO WIPE THIS NEFARIOUS, EVIL, VILE ABOMINABLE XIAN MAFIA OF SONIA MAINO. SWINE FLU WUD REQUIRE DRASTIC SOLUTIONS
@RA
Thanks
@MJ
It’s not about an average performing government being rewarded. The fact is BJP could not present a credible alternative. A lot of people I personally meet were talking of voting Congress even before elections. I tried to convince as many as I could, but the fact remains BJP was seen as a non-entity by many common people. At least in NCR, I dunno about other parts of the country.
BJP has failed to connect. That is the entire sum of the situation.
@the count
I agree with you. Now that Congress has a clear mandate they are likely to go the whole hog and do the most unthinkable.
@Bikash
Enough of the invective dear friend? We can do with better language right?
फिर वही सब कुछ ……………
पांच साल तक………….. सब कुछ फिर वही.कुछ हो या न हो लेकिन देश में हिन्दू विरोधी और देश विरोधी शक्तियों को मजबूत होने का मौका फिर से पांच साल तक के लिए मिल गया है .और अब वो और भी ज्यादा मजबूत होंगे .और जहाँ तक देश की आतंरिक और वाह्य सुरक्ष का सवाल है वह और भी ज्यादा खतरे में पड़ने वाला है .
बीजेपी की हार का कारण जो मेरी समझ में जो आता है वह यह है कि वह अपनी बात सभी लोगों तक ठीक ढंग से और सभी लोगों तक नहीं पहुंचा पाई . दूसरा कारण उम्मीदवारों के सही चुनाव को लेकर भी है .मीडिया का जहाँ तक सवाल है वह बीजेपी के लिए हमेशा damager का काम करती रही है .और आगे भी करती रहेगी .
I believe that the “friends of BJP” and such like-minded communities on/off line was needed much before and not as a knee-jerk reaction to the forthcoming elections.
Hey…don’t be disappointed…you win some you lose some…but one must be positive and prove to be a united and strong opposition. More than anything it is BJP’s pride that has bitten the dust…look at how media and thereby the voters of the congress are making sidey remarks and laughing sarcastically.
What you need is a strong mind and emerge as a strong party. BJP has 5 years to consolidate itself into a FORMIDABLE power…that should be the agenda
This is a sad day for a BJP supporter, but in a way, BJP has to reinvent itself and move on and focus on battles ahead. Having said that, I respect the people of India for giving a decisive mandate, even if it is in favour of the Congress. I also feel that BJP should realize that there are two very important aspects of this election - firstly, this is a game changer, as it will be very difficult to defeat a well-entrenched Congress in 2014, which will be led by Rahul Gandhi and be full of its young blood running ministries, who will definitely do a better job than what the old guard did (like Arjun Singh, etc.).
The second thing is that BJP needs to prepare for a post-Advani world immediately, and this will be a very tough challenge for its gen next.
For many people blaming EVMs, and bashing in the strength of netizens who opposes UPA government,
the rumor mills are saying that BJP has paid commentators and nurtured them to post against it to skew the opinion in their favor. What a hopeless party BJP has turned out to be.
BJP will have to concentrate a lot on the youth and “community influencers” who are largely youth icons…these could be celebrities, sportstars…which is a no-brainer…but some well known industrialists who could be the face of the brand in a subtle way…and yes these should be having a huge prowess in the fields that infleunce international 4th estate too.
See we have already left the defeat in the past and now started preparing for the next war. That is the beauty of the human mind…it takes pain only upto a point.
Iam pulling my hairs off!! this defeat isnt just sinking in!! cannot comprehend a 80+ seat defeat , If BJP do not reinvent itselves then congies may get 272 on their own next time around. We need to do some very very serios introspection else we will all be reduced to a bunch of jokers dreamin of impossible!! I think BJP needs to go back to its mother (RSS) and get itself disciplined first and behave like a party with a difference instead of the party with differences!! and this defeat is so much demoralising to the grass root workers and the BJP top leadership must take some serious steps to get the things in order and re emerge stronger. Hope we win the Maharastra assembly to start with.
BJP should strengthen the organization from grass-root level and should strive to get more seats from our own.
Definitely we can get more seats from Rajastan, Utherkhand, UP, Maharashtra, Delhi and possibly Assam.
Let’s hope 2014 is ours
It’s time for BJP to do some serious introspection and craft a message that really resonates. Strong leader, India shining are examples of messages that go well with urban middle class people but not with a bulk of rural voters.
Over the next 5 years, BJP needs to make an aggressive attempt to build the organization in rural india and craft it’s message accordingly. Congress and regional parties are way ahead in their outreach and connections to rural india….
Well it was a very bad day. I am looking forward for future.Lets be a disciplined party.It pains when some one proposes Mr Modi when Advani ji is still in the race. When BJP people in Raj are more interested in defeating BJP rather cong.
Lets see what happens next.I see more role play by RSS.
Obviously I am disaapointed as all the other BJP supporters would be.
My advise to BJP is that you guys tried best but the result was not in your hands- so take some rest and then start preparing with new enthusiasm for 2014/earlier elections.
This defeat needs detailed analysis and introspection-however I have quick initial points to make:
1.Efforts must be made to gain ground in AP,TN and Orrissa as these have quite a lot of seats and banking on regional parties in this state would not be reliable anymore.
Also could someone explain to me how come a small state like Kerela has 20 odd seats like AP?
2.Prepare the second generation leaders with Charisma.
3.Once again the middle class people did not come out to vote.This could be corrected only by more awareness amongst the people.
4.Time and again the electronic chips of the EVMs have been seen with suspicion.Once the election(results) activity settles down and effort must be made to get the same addressed.Perhaps paper ballot is more secure than EVMs.
Last but not the least,I still believe that the campaign by BJP was great its a different matter that it did not work to the expectation.
To LK Advaniji-sir,its shame that the country was not fortunate enough to lead it-your immense contribution to the polity of the nation would always be chrished by the nation and its people.
Shocking and disappointment and feeling low are the two words to descrive the result.
No use scribing about it , Krishna has said the Gita you have righ to work and not to the result.
Next it would be better if RSS play a role in getting the message we have a decent media outlet to show regarding the congress mistakes and also
DONT DILUTE HINDUTVA….AGAIN
I think BJP biggesy mistake was resorting to secularsim when RAM temple issue was raised
Any way good campaign , very education and change from congress style dont give up, we are there for you the silent voters;
Thank you and BYe
Hi All - It is a very sad episode for us all who worked very hard to see the change. Unfortunately, the outcome is not favorable. It is a time now to introspect and see what was done wrong. All the criticism is welcome. Lets regroup with same fervour.
“the rumor mills are saying that BJP has paid commentators and nurtured them to post against it to skew the opinion in their favor. What a hopeless party BJP has turned out to be.”
Who runs those Rumor Mills, can u name. The fact is that the stinking Feminazis have en masse voted for RANIJI, Muslim and Xians have en masse voted for VATI-CAN TALIBAANI CONGRESS while the EVMs HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH. Rumor Mills of TRAITORS like CNN-IBN, NDTV, TIMES NOW, TOI will churn endless propoganda whatever their WHITE BOSSES WANT
i did not even dream that it could come out like this. it is disappointing. Now again we have to tolerate a govt which is good for nothing. Again there will be no major step would be taken for coming 5 years.
But its high time that BJP Top brass should do something about it. if BJP will not come to power, the only message that will be passed to its supporter is “BJP can not make it to top”. we should learn the lesson from this defeat.
1> BJP should create the example of best governance in the ruling states. your popularity should not come down from where it is at present. Rajasthan should not be repeated again. if you could make your every ruling state as good as gujrat is in present. results will be reflected in every election. This election was more on state govt performance compared to Manmohan Singh performance. Watch out for uttrakhand. BJP lost by 0-5 there.
2> Every Elected BJP MP, should do the justice with its constituency. They should work hard in their respected area so that in next election, BJP will not loose these seats. BJP Top Brass should form a team which should review the work done by their MPs periodically.
3> BJP Core should seriously think about expanding their base in southern states of India. Currently congress is the only option they do see. even if congress do bad in one area, they do compensate in other area. so congress even in worse situation do get more than 125+ seats. you can not rely on regional parties to do good on your behalf. you have to stand there to prove yourself.
BJP do have some of the finest, intelligent and great personalities along with them. chalk out the plan and do target next general election. Plan it to get majority on their own. it sounds big but achievable. if you will not dream it, you will not get it.
4> Middle class is not coming out to vote. so either make them to come out or better start reaching out to public who do vote.
Remember, In marketing they say Word of Mouth “WoM” as most effective marketing strategy. if public will talk good about BJP, it will be reflected. Use Media, use your networking, use your workforce to spread good words about BJP. Keep yourself away from any controversies till next election.
i am not sure if my points will even reach to the core members of BJP. i just wish if it could be heard. if any of you have some say in BJP, please do pass this message to BJP HQ.
As a supporter of BJP, it is very disappointing to see BJP loosing again and again when India need it most.
बीजेपी की दूसरी बार हार ,यह कोई joke नहीं है और वो भी तब जब २००४ के चुनाव में अपने शासन काल में अच्छा काम करते हुए भी और दूसरी बार अब जब यू पी ए के खिलाफ़ महंगाई ,भ्रष्टाचार ,बेरोजगारी आंतकवाद जैसे गंभीर राष्ट्रीय मुद्दे होने के बावजूद भी .मुझे ऐसा लगता है इस चुनाव में राष्ट्रीय मुद्दों का कोई असर नहीं हुआ ,बल्कि स्थानीय मुद्दे ही हावी रहे .
It’s painful to see LK Advani unable to become PM, but I foresee the 15th Lok Sabha being unable to complete it’s full term ( I don’t know why, but I get this strange feeling….). Because the parties supporting UPA will place a lot of demands which will be difficult for the Congress to fulfill. So I think there will be a snap election by the end of this year (Many may ridicule, but wait and watch December 2009)
My heart belongs to India and it beats as it bleeds with the BJP today. Let us accept the failure and brave the challenge ahead of us.
My consolation lies in the fact that, I travelled 1500 kilometers to press the button against the Hand and for the Lotus. My candidate won.
Time for Atalji’s poem:
कभी थे अकेले हुए आज इतने
नही तब डरे तो भला अब डरेंगे
विरोधों के सागर में चट्टान है हम
जो टकराएंगे मौत अपनी मरेंगे
लिया हाथ में ध्वज कभी न झुकेगा
कदम बढ रहा है कभी न रुकेगा
न सूरज के सम्मुख अंधेरा टिकेगा
निडर है सभी हम अमर है सभी हम
के सर पर हमारे वरदहस्त करता
गगन में लहरता है भगवा हमारा॥
Well, unfortunately, the problem with our people is that we are too ignorant to even understand if the rumor mill makes sense - how can creating negative opinion about yourself help? If that is the case then every product marketed will start saying hey - do not buy us because we ’suck’. You want positive press and vibes to succeed - so anybody who starts the rumor mill really knows that this country is officially now inhabited by ‘fools’.
The Congress has done spectacularly well going by the tally of 199 seats. What should we credit them with? Can anybody tell what they did reght. What can the BJP do to penetrate the vote banks of the Congress. The minorities are ruled out. Amoungst the poor, how do you impress them, when you are not in power and cannot dole out anything. Vast majority of the congress’ constituents do not think beyond two square meals, a roof over their heads and relief when affected by natural calamities. It is this segment that the BJP has to look so that the Congress cannot take advantage of their vulnerability. Reaching out to this category in BJP ruled states should be made top priority now. The central unit has to monitor states performance and people in Congress ruled states should be made to vote for BJP during assembly elections. As far as the rest of the country is concerned, the RSS has to help in a big way. Why have they stopped their SEVA?. They are never seen during floods etc. It is not enough they only care for the religious sentiments of Hindus. The Hindus should be made economically strong, only then can BJP not bother to worry about being punished by minorities thru their godfather the Congress. As far as the middle class and urban areas go, as many of you have rightly said, the BJP should repeatedly expose the Cogress’ misdeeds. Remeber, the Congress and the DMK NCP combine is going to be all the more beligerent and arrogant now.
If BJP moves away from Hindu Rashtra or Ram Rajya, it wont remain the instrument of change it started out as… Just because people did not understand its ideology does not mean the ideology is incorrect.. May be it was not explained properly… mebbe ppl are a little dumb and need to be convinced more fiercely.. or mebbe people understand it, but think it is not possible to adopt it as we have come so far on the path of destruction than re-construction seems a far-fetched unrealistic idea. But its possible. The truth is, irrespective of whether people realize it or not, Indians will always be slaves, but Bhartiyas had ruled and will rule, ie. if they would re-establish their control on the region. Bharat, even 2500 years ago, was stronger and more advanced than the present day US & Europe together. So, the bottom line is that we, under no circumstances, should wander away… instead make a more tactful inroad in the minds or people.
Solution is to educate every individual at a personal level. I dont say this just for rhetoric… just look at (do some research n u ll get it) all the advances our sages had made… its all well documented. But its in Sanskrit. The British education system that we follow was an attempt (a very successful one at that) to kill our very powerful and effective old education system - the Gurukul system. Until and unless we make an attempt to revive it and bring it up to date with what’s happening today, we would not be able to benefit from the intellectual powerhouse that we have in our own backyard. We will continue to remain at the mercy of the West for any technological advances.
And btw, people who think the Hindutva agenda is just about building Temples, should know that the Sanatan Dharma has enlightened human beings on every aspect of private and public life - behavior, conduct, education, technology, military strategy, administration, governance… you name it and you will find some great insight into every facet of life in the Sanatan Dharm. We would not be able to re-discover this wisdom even if we make all the present-day IITians and IIMites sit together and brainstorm. So, it makes a lot of sense to go ahead and encourage re-opening of these old Sanskrit texts and to slowly adapt them once again into our education system until they once again become the very basis of our education. BJP had made an attempt to do this during its tenure, but the UPA reversed it all calling it saffronization of education. The secular brigade would never allow this. If BJP joins them, they wont be able to do this either.
So advocating that BJP should reach out to the minorities to make them feel more secure n stuff wont help us in anyway. Yes, BJP (and like-minded orgzns) and all of us Bhartiyas should reflect in our conduct and actions the very teachings of our Sanatan Dharma - that is enough to make the so-called minorities feel safe and secure. And, I truly believe one day we will be able to build Akhand Bharat once again - but that would require lots of hardwork and penance - All of us would have to make an attempt to live the ideal life prescribed by Dharma (the eternal law and not religion) and we will see miracles happen.
I dont think that the election were fair enough,
I read some where where Jayalalita put an allegation that voters are pressing AIDMK button on EVM and the light for DMK is blowing……This might happen with BJP too
click this link to understand how fair or unfair EVMs can be
http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/protesters-sue-stop-use-french-e-voting-machines-597
Friends of BJP,
We need to be together and work for national interest.
The duration for which this forum existed was too short to make a difference,
Let us stratergise for the long run and work towards getting a nationalist government elected in next round
Meanwhile, a suggestion to the moderators of this forum,
Please continue building FoBJP, we can use this platform to discuss issues and help BJP function as a responsible opposition.
We can also help BJP with local level elections,
Dear Rama Srinivasan,
RSS never stopped its Seva. They are always the first people to reach the site of calamity and volunteer help. They did it during earthquakes, Floods, Tsunami. RSS is not a political orgn but a cultural one. They always do what they stand for.
@NARESH
मैं तुम्हारी बात से सहमत हूँ नरेश .मैं भी चाहता हूँ कि भारत अपने प्राचीन ज्ञान विज्ञान का देश और समाज के हित के लिए पुनर्स्थापन करे .
It is with the heaviest heart I have watched this debacle today.
I am different kind of wave analyser and in my opinion, the party which rose from ashes of 2 seats in 1984 to 188 in 1999 it never looked down.It entered in a reverse cycle since 2004 and in my opinion the reverse is arrested now thanks to the last minite fighting spirit introduced by Advaniji, who no doubt was the brain entirely behind the post 1984 growth.
The party can now look forward for 300 figure in 2014 provided
1. It goes all alone pan india and Discard alliance politics immediately (Remember Patnaik and Nitish kumar at lat minute)The voters have rejected alliance polics decisively now .
2. Revamps party organisation to provide young dynamic selfless and vibrant faces at all levels right from now
3.Makes diologues with poor voter core of congress and educates them. Starting own electronic channels (Commercial, semi-devoted and devoted)can be first step
4.Discards the likes of Sushamas and Rajnaths(President loosing to make impression in prime state and madam nurturing high ambitions without ground support) for whom politcs is sidebusiness and invite Modis and RSS bachelors who are fulltime devotees
As for the Freinds of BJP, I become emotional for their role. The blog/site must continue and BJP shold appoint a senior-most level office-bearer to co-ordinate with this blog. This blog will revolutionise the future of India in 2014.If we not and if BJP not able to break the shackles of congress the future will not forgive us
So let us start from now on
Thanks and best wishes
I agree with you, Sanjay. The BJP should forgo all alliances in the next elections. At the same time, they should instill higher discipline in the party at all levels. Mebbe they can make RSS background a pre-requisite to contest on party ticket and select the top RSS guys (as per their criteria) in each state to contest in polls. RSS guys are mostly disciplined and do not get mis-adventurous easily, and they also understand, in word and spirit, the party ideology.
All BJP Fraternity
Dear Sirs,
I was very hopeful this morning that BJP will win this time; prayed and sat before the television 06-00 AM sharp. Feel very very sad that BJP couldn’t make it.
I am 68+, can’t wait for yet another five years for BJP to come back. Where is the guarantee that the GOP will not do further damage, and make it imossible for BJP to return to power? There is an urhent need for greater focus, concert and strategy; afraid BJP should not have left the entire space in Kerala, TN, AP, and West Bengal open for GOP to milk seats. Opportunities come once in a life time, we cant afford to squander them.
To achieve mass contact with a billion people, besides a lakh of level pointsmen at the grass roots level, BJP needs enormous money power and Media power. BJP should have its own captive TV Channel (don’t know if there is one already, can they use Astha?) BJP Spokespersons should not go to rival media and give interviews, at least try to be very sparing. I blogged a lot past threeweeks on LK Advani site on varoius topics and strategies, I’am utterly disappointed at the results. If you find my Blogs are of any worth, request please go through the link to my blogsite provided herein. I leave it to younger generation to pick up the threads and work in concert to revive Hindutva. Let us all take a vow with a strong resolve to work together for 2014 elections or even before that for mid-term elections. Jai Hind, Jai Bharat.
Savya Saachi
The result was really disappointing but i will say one thing, “When the going gets tough, the tough gets going”
BJP leadership should start a total manthan and re-design its grass root level. We should start working for next election right from now. Involve more and more ppl into different field of works. Involve youth as much as possible. Select candidates well in advance and dont wait for the election to come round the corner to decide a candidate. Work in respective areas and as modiji says, try to create a jann andolan.
Hope next time things turn our better for us.
Jai Hind.
I am really disheartened to see that Advaniji’s life time service to the nation has gone in vain. I feel sad for my country and its pathetic ignorant people.
I waited for the last 5 years not to see this day. Advaniji, I am sorry to see you as the leader of opposition.
YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON WHO IS FIT TO BE THE PM
Jai Hind
Friends, We just need to act positively, for us the goal will be to provide solutions and execute to problems and not get into excessive criticisms (that is what Congress will do and we will refute with a simple statement that we believe in positivism and not get into the kind of negative politics that Congress gets into). our criticism will be against policies but with a positive message on the alternatives.
Gita is my guide and we need to bring politicians who are not only intelligent but are also spiritual with a belief and realization of our scriptures.
Reminds me of a statement that Sri Sri Ravishankar made few years back - ‘Spiritualize Politics and Secularize Religion”. How true. We need morally superior politicians - time has come to launch the true conservative movement in India.
Jai Bharat!
Jai Hind
is desh ko bikne nahi denge, advani chale chalo, bjp aage badho, hum tumhare sath the, hum tumhare sath hai
I think now the victory will be associated with all sorts of virtues.
मुंबई में हार …………..
मुंबई के बारे में मैंने बीजेपी को सावधान किया था कि मुंबई के निम्न ,गरीब और निम्न मध्यम आय वर्ग के उत्तर भारतीय मतदाता बीजेपी को वोट नहीं करने वाले हैं .इस पर बीजेपी को गंभीरता से ध्यान देना चाहिए .लेकिन मेरी बात पर किसी ने ध्यान ही नहीं दिया .एक तरफ एम एन एस ने शिव सेना का मराठी वोट काटा तो दूसरी तरफ उत्तर भारतियों ने बीजेपी को वोट नहीं किया . यहाँ बीजेपी-शिव सेना को दोहरी मार पड़ी नतीजतन मुंबई में बीजेपी शिव-सेना के दिग्गज नेता राम नाईक , किरीट सोमैय्या और गजानन कीर्तिकर की हार हुई .
BJP should have strong mass media channels to reach to voters.
What will take BJP to understand this
I think congress won for the following reasons.
a) Media was completely backing them . Can you show me atleast one channel that has batted for BJP ?. BJP , should seriously think of opening their own channel.
b) Congress did tricks which worked well.
Farmer loan waiver, student loans , employement benefits and NREGI schemes worked wonders.
For BJP, I think they should have gotten rid of Vasundhara and her arrogance in Rajasthan. Rajasthan costed them seriously. They should seriously expand in A.P, T.N, Keral, West Bengal.
All is not lost for BJP, forget about alliances, BJP should make Modi the apposition leader and give young people like Varun a good chance to lead in UP. Yes, the descpline of RSS will help BJP if they complement each other healthily.
I am frustrated too and I can’t believe this. Things are just not adding up. We, at least I was blindly believing whatever, not to name any names, BJP senior karyakartas, campaign managers and spokespersons were saying about the ground realities. I was certainly not believing what media was saying because it is 100% Pro-Congress. Why else do you think most of them got Padma Shri? So then who was lying or was completely oblivious about the ground reality: media or BJP karyakarta?
The point is it can’t just be media (although its a main cause certainly) and it certainly can’t be Mr. Modi as some within the BJP are blaming to be which is completely ridiculous as the guy has done miracles in terms of development in Gujarat.
Its this party infighting, over confidence, not being able to reach the masses effectively in time and most certainly biased CEC Navin Chawla, man!
I mean seriously, 20 seats for Congress in UP now being credited useless Rahul. Samuel Reddy voted back into power in Andhra. DMK wins in TN. Naveen in Odisha.
This just doesn’t add up. I hope these were fair elections and no rigging or EVM malfunctions happened, although I seriously doubt that the last part has not happened.
But seriously, this is no less than a nightmare to say the least.
On a positive note,
कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन।
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोस्त्वकर्मणि॥
— श्रीमद्भगवद्गीता २-४७
We did our Karm but the results are not in our hands. May be we didn’t do our Karm better than the others. So we have to continue and build BJP again ground up in all the states. And seriously please hold on to the Assembly states that you are in right now, please don’t goof up like Rajasthan and try to get in the states that you are not in, even if it means sitting in opposition. It may take time but BJP can attract/recruit young blood as there is no dearth of that.
Make the states that you are ruling such model states like Gujarat that people will be forced to elect development over vote bank and advertise it in time.
Please clear the misunderstanding people have about BJP like Kandahar, Parliament, Communal face, association with hooligans of SR Sene, etc. more aggressively to the masses. Please continue with such forums as one of the medium for feedback from those who are privileged to access Internet in Bharat (that ain’t going to change much under corrupt Congress in next 5 yrs). Please continue with connect with the masses exercises like Friends of BJP events, Bloggers for BJP and Advani@Campus. We started these very late. Had this been started more than a year ago, it would have had some very positive ripple effects. Certainly continuing with it now will have positive ripple effects for future. So please don’t abandon them.
Too sad its certainly going to be an uphill task to save Shri Ram Sethu and Sanatan Vedic Dharm/Sanskruti. But we have done it in the past and by God’s grace we will do it again. Just focus on development and cultural rejuvenation in the states that you already have and don’t let them go because of party infighting or corruption.
However, the first thing that BJP needs to do is to pull up its socks, don’t let the sense of demoralization set in its Karyakata and Supporters/Voters like they did in 2004. We were so shocked and demoralized what had hit us that BJP was not on political map as it didn’t accept the ground reality for over a year. Please send clear messages and put up offensive brave face and continue to build party base. Congress has proved lie said a thousand times becomes the truth and that is what BJP needs to do but the opposite. Say the truth a thousand times and people will eventually see it in clarity. We should have started Manmohan is weak campaign over 2-3 years ago. But no worries, now be so aggressive, hit them where it hurts. They have done that to us too. But make sure your message reaches larger audience and in positive manner. This is the era to be aggressive, offensive and assertive to counter the Christian-Muslim Rightist Congress by being a party for all. Make sure you tell people this because people want to hear it just to be sure as they are too dumb to notice it. But please don’t let your party workers be demoralized and your core voters/supporters be disenchanted by this defeat. That would break the very back bone of the party.
And watch out for this guy Navin Chawla with hawk eyes and please find out what did Congress know that we didn’t about the ground reality.
Thank you Advaniji for all your selfless and tireless contribution to Bharat. May God Shri Ram bless you, us and May God Shri Ram bless Bharat.
What bjp has lost is 10 to 15 seats, heavens have not fallen on the conterary bjp has hold it’s ground in most of the states. What has to be taken note of is that Indian media with all sorts of sops distributed and worked out cunningly by congress party with negative propoganda full of lies. Bjp should work out hard to bring their own channels to counter such propoganda. All so called editors of the eloctronic channels still go on justifying all the falsehood, Bjp failed to counter adverse propoganda, after Shri vajpaiji’s rule and has also now failed to convey Bjp’s good intentions and the misrule of congress. To the people of India. Hoping bjp to work out a fool proof strategy at next available opportunity.
Lesson 1
Polarized votebank cannot vin the Nation.
Congress suffered becuase of BJP for a decade and now People realized and voted
against BJP. Muslims backed congress and middle level people voted congress for
governance.
Lesson 2
Vote for Governance
BJP istead raised irrelavent issues such as terrorism, powerful leader etc. Why Modi won
in Gujart, Yedi in Karnataka, Nithish in Bihar is example
Lesson 3
Need friendly Govt
DMK, congress for ex for waiving the loans. giving free TV’s etc and Non friendly nature of
Communist in Bengal. But this will benefit only for short period and good during brink of election time.
Lesson 4
RSS ideology
I was active participant of RSS and we did lot of campaigns helping people which is missing now. BJP is
actually devalued RSS ideology by culminating hatred politics with RSS good social activities.
RSS did not teach killing others and misbehaving like Advani did against ManMohan. After all ManMohan
is good asset for Congress and he is very respected person in Global arena.
What should BJP do now:
To widen the base, BJP should behave as a national party and all community people should believe in BJP.
They have to change from top to bottom. Talk about only good governance and not about caste, creed and junk.
This election is an eye opener in India probably first time afer independence. This is the sign of maturing
our democracy. We want good goverance and nothing else. Those who have governed well retained the seats instead
advanced in seats. For Kalam’s vision to fulfill, we should only look about progessing. Terrorism and all should be
dealt by good intelligance, armaments etc and good leadership is required.
It is better for BJP to sink further in 2014 election too and revamp the organization inorder to recognize as a real
national party. Lastly kudos to Advaniji to bring the BJP to national level. Era is changing and Advaniji might be right
for his era for politics but now it is high time to take rest.
India citizens need a strong vibrant non hatred party to copmete with Congress (assume Congress will also mature with Rahul’s leadership)
and BJP could be best option to counter with (under whose leadership???). This is a question to BJP leadership to find some young dynamic
leader.
Our parties should think of n number of things :-
To reduce poverty
Provide good standard of living
Protect country from outsiders
Stop blackmoney, ransome etc
Good Policing
Spend on infrastructure, R&D, health and science
Stop reservation politics, free soaps to people
Bring our old education value chain.
Rejunevate our traditional values - This is very important. India is built on Values, culture contrary to foreign nations where are keeping Values on upper
layer of pyramid.
Jai Hind
The Third Front plus Fourth Front lost 70+ seats, and the UPA gained 70+. So UPA’s victory is primarily due a sweeping anti left wave.
The NDA is only slightly lower than last time - so I wouldn’t yet call it a rout. However unless they build a base in AP, Kerala, WB etc they will always be in trouble.
BLANKET BAN ON PARTISAN CHANNELS
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As for the media, its about time the BJP just completely stops participating in two channels - CNN IBN, and NDTV, and raise this issue of a biased media in all forums.
It’s extremely unfortunate that BJP has lost. BJP should try and focus on south india. I was really hoping to see Advani ji as the next PM.
The only positive thing abt the elections is the rout of Left parties. That is an achievement.
The day congress campaigns based on development and not on pseudo “secularism” or on crutches of dynasty - that is the day you can have hope for INdia.
BJP - Stop talking and start thinking and acting.
Sujith
unbelievable..who divides people on the basis of caste, religion.who campaigns shamelessly for minority vote banks…its people like you that will ultimately sell this country off to China…what did upa do in the last 5 years interms of governance…idiotic shmuck..
Hello siddharth. First of all please mind language and respect the opinion of other friends of BJP colleagues. We are all equally disappointed as you, but this is not the time for mindless and extreme reaction. Sadly that is what even the BJP leadership tends to do most of the time. First of all the defeat is not entirely due to minority vote banks. If that were the case, the rest of the majority would have all voted for BJP! The need of the hour is to focus on real issues that will connect with large number of Indians and ensure that we win the 2014 election.
I am very disappointed with the results. If BJP is a party of good governance, it should never lose once won. I cannot digest BJP losing Rajastan.
Indian population can be divided into two categories. Educated and uneducated . You cannot explain hindutva to uneducated poor while they struggle for daily meals . The only language you can speak with them is Seva. BJP cadre should work like RSS cadre. Uninterrupted Seva to people irrespective of whether it is election time or not.
With educated, the approach should be different. Educated cannot deny history and reason. There should be a constant dialogue with educated people .
Many people are not against Hindutva. They are just not informed better. Making Hindutva popular is not an election time activity. It has to be a continuous activity.
Mr. Joshi
Could there have been some manipulation/malfunction in the voting machines…
Secondly, how will the BJP conect without anyhelp form the media? Also, what can common people like me who have absolutely no idea about politics do something?
A
Mr. Joshi
Could there have been some manipulation/malfunction in the voting machines…
Secondly, how will the BJP conect without anyhelp form the media? Also, what can common people like me who have absolutely no idea about politics do something?
Are you active in politics or any similar endeavour?
@Sujith bhai
You call ridiculous manifesto full of divisive Muslim vote bank appeasement, dynastic nepotist politics, worst recession ever in 60 years, Shunya infrastructural development, over 45 major terrorist attacks, no finance minister for 150 days, openly Anti-Hindu stand, divisive policies to destroy and toxify education, devaluation of constitutional bodies, unimaginable corruption, etc. irrelevant issues and existence of these debacles as vote for governance.
“Mature under Rahul’s leadership”… What leadership? That he was partying till 5 AM in the morning on the night of 26/11 terrorist attack. I think it is downright immoral and unethical for someone who is forced upon us as next PM to party & merry at a time of unprecedented national security crisis like 26/11. If he was concerned then he should have been watching over the counter operation in Mumbai rather than drinking out with his Spanish girlfriend or wife whatever she is.
Dude, we seriously have difference of opinion here. At least BJP wouldn’t gag your freedom of speech for saying so. And that’s democracy.
Guys check this out on EVM tampering: http://www.lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5363&start=0
Guys have you noticed one thing. Ever since the ban on simultaneous Exit Polls in last year Assembly Elections, BJP has been loosing.
As a young but lifelong BJP supporter, I have to say there is pain, a whole lot of pain. I know a lot of us are tempted to blame the media, the Muslims, even buy into conspiracy theories over EVMs and stuff. But, hey, we lost… it’s our fault for not being able to understand the mind of our people.
We have to begin a process of consolidation and rebuilding. We owe it to the nation we love. The BJP should never lose its identity as the party of patriots and for that we have to remember, even in our years in the opposition, that the nation always comes first; above our leaders, our sentiments and our party. We have to oppose only when our conscience tells us we should. And if we work hard and try to do the right thing, people will come around.
As of now, it is not obvious what we can do to rebuild the party. We have to wait for a game changer. In 2004, Bush and his party swept the elections in the US, but come 2008 and the Democrats were all over the place. That is because the Democrats were ready to grab the game changer when it came. We cannot make things happen, because we will be in the Opposition. We will be in a situation to react to events, rather than cause them to happen. But if the Congress party is as bad as we think, they will make mistakes and their mistakes will let them down. We will have to be prepared to embrace the opportunity.
As a nationalist and centrist party the BJP will start off at a disadvantage against the pseudo-secular pigs of the congress party and the media in every election. the only way to stem this is to rally every party member to action from the lowest cadre to the highest leader to work from the grassroots. We as citizens can do our part also, like boycotting anti-national, pseudo-secular media incl newspaper and also boycotting products and writing to the sponsors of the media swines’ gutter programs,encourage the youth and harness the power of the internet. My fellow citizens, this is not a time to be feeling down but to take this as an opportunity to bounce back and emerge stronger.
This is not an end of the road for BJP or for our nation.
After all, from a mere 2 seats in 1984, we rose to the center stage of national politics, thanks to Advanji & Vajpayji.
Just imagine the BJP of 1991 - 116 seats? VAST MAJORITY of them were from Uttar Pradesh. See, today, the largest contingent of MPs for BJP are from a south indian state KARNATAKA - 19 Seats! And in ASSAM, we have won 4 seats. Surely these are all positive trends.
Despite a good orgnaizational network, we are unable to win a single MLA/MP seat in KERALA. And despite substantial vote-bank, we are seen as POLITICALLY UNTOUCHABLE by Chandrababu Naidu and Chiranjeevi. In Tamil Nadu, still we are seen as a North Indian party or Upper castes. This scenario MUST CHANGE!
Though I am surprised, I am not worried about Rajastan, Uttarkand, N.Delhi, Haryana, etc - this time we lost, next time we may sweap. But in W.BENGAL and ORRISA we have to make steady inroads.
We have to take a very PRO-ACTIVE role in the opposition. We have to liquidate the LEFT, lock stock and barrell….. we should never leave chance for the LEFT to take the anti-congress weapon. For even a slight tilt towards USA, we have to make a big agitation against Congress/UPA. LET US WHOLEHEARTEDLY WORK AS THE REAL OPPONENTS OF CONGRESS…. THE WHOLE ‘OPPOSITION’ SPACE IN LOK SABHA IS FOR US!
I agree with Abhishek. Dude, you got my Kudos. Very aptly put: “We cannot make things happen, because we will be in the Opposition. We will be in a situation to react to events, rather than cause them to happen. But if the Congress party is as bad as we think, they will make mistakes and their mistakes will let them down. We will have to be prepared to embrace the opportunity.”
Hope BJP’s leadership is listening.
@ SATYABHASNAM
इतने सारे mistake का जब अब फायदा नहीं उठा पाए तो अब कैसे उठा पाएंगे यह भी सोचा होगा बीजेपी को .
My heart bleeds today..
My own nation seems to be bent on digging its own grave
When will we Indian’s come out of our “slave” mentality.
Today Rahul Gandhi, then Priyanka, and then their kids..without even pondering, what has this family given our nation in 50 years of its rule except corruption at all levels
Please give me a break..
Also, now I am not in favour of boycotting channels like NDTV and IBN7. ( Earlier I was )
Rather we should appint some designated persons only ( who can beat the likes of Pranay Roy and Barkha Dutt at their own game )
People can easliy make it out, as to who has won the argument.
Be Assertive and confident..and in the mean time also start your own channel.
If Congress is able to grab UP ( 80 seats ), then BJP is doomed as they do not have much presence in the south.
With current trend , Congress ahead of BJP in UP, I do not see a rosy future for BJP.
Where are the leaders in these states ?
And please please get rid of non-performing and arrogant chief ministers ( read Vasundhra Raje and Khanduri ) in Uttrakhand.
The country is changing. People vote on local issues and not on national. If you have the state, and a good chief minister, you can expect more seats for yourself at the centre.
Have a non performing chief minister, and people will not vote for you at the centre, how good your governence may be at national level
The only solace from this election is the decimation of left and so called 4th Front parties..
Also, instead of just ranting here, we need to do something..but I do not even know, if my own BJP MLA will listen to me on these counts..
Somebody rightly mentioned that we need to pick leaders from RSS cadres, as they are more disiplined and efficient..
and NO COALITION in any state..as they will easily dump you, like Naveen ( next will be Nitish )
Fight on all 543 seats…
Also once a leader is expelled, do not ever take them back ( e.g Kalyan Singh..).
They will do more harm in the long run…
We all should do something..and fast..
5 years is not a big time…
@ SATYABHASHNAM
इतने सारे mistake का जब अब फायदा नहीं उठा पाए तो अब कैसे उठा पाएंगे यह भी सोचना होगा बीजेपी को .
Dreams shattered, but not the mirror, we can reflect upon it, retrospect and recharge for renaissance. BJP has not lost rather congress won as they have the entire gamut of media, justice, election commission, investigation under them. Our resolves should not break at this juncture and claim we are secular, but rather be brave enough to put up the Hindutva card at this tough time. Think about this, if BJP with all negative campaign against it by the opposition through various medium is able to hold on to most of its seats, its because of its constructive approach to issues, positive people to people interaction, thats the need of the hour but in a broader manner. I personally suggest that BJP leaders should abstain from participating in any discussion in TV channels. I have stopped watching NDTV. CNN IBN stopped reading the HINDU. boycott is the best manner to hit them hard, as a consumer we have a responsibility to set aside the adulterated materials in the media. We can stop using the foul language that we have learnt courtesy anti-national parties, but rather express our boiling emotions in rather democratic way.
I have noted down few phrases that made sense to me which i personally feel can create some positive effect
BLANKET BAN ON PARTISAN CHANNELS
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As for the media, its about time the BJP just completely stops participating in two channels - CNN IBN, and NDTV, and raise this issue of a biased media in all forums.
We as citizens can do our part also, like boycotting anti-national, pseudo-secular media incl newspaper and also boycotting products and writing to the sponsors of the media swines’ gutter programs,encourage the youth and harness the power of the internet.
Despite a good orgnaizational network, we are unable to win a single MLA/MP seat in KERALA. And despite substantial vote-bank, we are seen as POLITICALLY UNTOUCHABLE by Chandrababu Naidu and Chiranjeevi. In Tamil Nadu, still we are seen as a North Indian party or Upper castes. This scenario MUST CHANGE!
BJP goes all alone pan india and Discard alliance politics immediately (Remember Patnaik and Nitish kumar at last minute)The voters have rejected alliance politics decisively now .
आने वाले दिनों में मीडिया को लेकर बीजेपी को कोई रण नीति बनानी पड़ेगी कि मीडिया का वह कैसे इस्तमाल करे या अपना खुद का कोई चैनल शुरू करे .
Naresh:
So why don’t you make us understand the ideology that you are complaining about people not understanding? People understand the arrogance of your statement when you say that ‘People do not what is right for them so they make wrong decisions’, because YOU know what is right for everybody, and in your mind the problem does not seem to be that you can’t make it crystal clear in specifics of word and action about what your ‘right’ is and see if there is room for consensus around it, it is that all who might not agree are dumb enough not to get it. Quite interesting!!
This is EXACTLY the mindset people I have talked to have voted against, and you don’t and choose not to get it. Quite sad really.
There is a lot of talk about MNS being the spoiler for BJP - Shiv Sena alliance in Maharashtra with the customarily Shiv Sena voters going the MNS way. The flip side of the coin is that there are people in cities across Maharashtra who voted for Congress because of MNS violent anti north indian activities in the name of regional pride - pretty much the values and rhetoric associated with the Shiv Sena - that the Congress has surreptiously fostered for years - never really condemning or controlling it, while disassociating with it in sweet ’secular’ talk for exactly the kind of end we have seen in this election.
It is to the ‘credit’ should I say of the BJP that it has never taken or been unable to take the opportunity in its positions, and rhetoric, except feeble, platitudinous protestations to unmask this duplicity possibly because of its own very visible and overt alliance and support of the Shiv Sena with their ‘insider-outsider’ parochial ‘gana’, where Marathi pride has become targeting all groups of non-Maharashtians one by one, even in a Metropolitan city like Mumbai, which has been what it became because of contributions by people and communities from all over India.
I am a BJP supporter as I see through the games of the so-called secularists, but it has been disturbing for me as a North Indian with family in Maharashtra to see Shiv Sena being referred to as BJP’s ideological brother. It bothers me to see justifications by BJP supporters of the antics of Raj Thackeray, acting like law unto himself, of beating people up for wanting to celebrate a UP festival and sing a Bhojpuri song and driving them out of a state in India - as ‘Nativism’, like there are not Maharashtrians spread outside of Maharashtra, around the country and the world, in search of opportunities, speaking in Marathi amongst themselves and celebrating Marathi festivals as a way of staying connected to what is ‘native’ to them.
Naresh, please tell from the place of your Righteous conduct if as a North Indian, regardless of my religion, my issues with that ideological framework is just an outcome of not knowing what is good for me?
There is a place of sanity between the vote garnering ‘minorityism’ ‘pseudo-secular’ front of the Congress and an ‘anti-minority’ sentiment, which is denied in words but paraded as Righteous conduct, where it becomes OK for people to be beaten and harassed and bossed around as a result of being outnumbered as a group (the essential definition of a minority) by way of language, customs, religion, whatever.
If you can’t reflect and find and project in the public consciousness that place of sanity in words and action, there might just be more of the 2009 election results in store and worse ’cause the so-called secular crowd has the packaging down as attractive wrapping for zero achievement.
We have to keep a positive attitude. In many ways, this verdict is better than that of 2004. In 2004, there was no clear winner. This time, there is one and Congress will have to face up to the expectations of the people.
In the last 10 years, Indian politics had come to be overshadowed by an “anti BJP line”. Remember the time long ago when BJP would find it easy to get allies? Today it is Congress that has so many allies of all sorts; in fact, Congress could be on either side in UP, Bihar, WB, Orissa, AP, TN and Kerala!
With this verdict, BJP has a new chance. There is a chance to revive the old “anti Congress” line in Indian politics. Regional parties and Congress’ own allies are now scared of Congress because Congress has surged ahead. Regional parties know that if Congress can revive in UP, Congress can revive anywhere. Starting now, BJP will find it easier to get alliances.
RA
You call yourself enlightened…who convinced you of BJP’s complicity in that scum Raj thackrey’s rantings…it was the media right…Advani was the only politician who gave a statement that decried reservations based on caste/religion. he tried to get MNS to debate his policies…the english media, not only in India but dailies like the newyork times, wall street journal, were all calling BJP, the HINDU MILITANT party..how can one fight this bias? its impossible…anyway now its over as it is…india will become a mistress to China and the US…arunachal, ladakh basically the whole northeast is already lost now…
The verdict of 2009 gives us an opportunity to fight with our backs to the wall, something a Swayamsevak delights in the most. Why all the glum faces… why this temptation to blame others for our failure? There was a time Congress would rule every nook and corner of the country. WE broke them down. We can do it again.
We do not need a specific leader or a specific family to motivate us. We are motivated by our nationality and our love for this nation. We are “swayamsevaks” and now we have to fight long and hard. It is what we do best.
mockingbuddha dot wordpress dot com
Can i first rub in a few open wounds by saying “I TOLD YOU SO” that the BJP had a pipe dream and that Advani’s ambition stood in the way of any chances of its success?? You did not believe me then…
If you have not seen or have ignored Mocking Buddha’s earlier comments, it has been at your own peril…see them now, at least they will seem so right in retrospect. And you have a better chance at the next elections.
Let us face the facts.
Point 1. Advani fought a losing campaign; good for the country because i see him as a leader of little imagination and even little capacity. In contrast to say Modi, who even as he started on a bad wicket has managed to start looking good with governance. Quite the statesman these days, that old bully.
But at least Modi has something to show for himself. What has Advani to show except his dull headedness and his masjid demolition claims.
There is nothing Advani has done for INDIA, other than being a civil contractor with a fetish for masjid destruction. Add to such imfamy, the tag of India’s worst Home Minister ever. O ya, he spent a few days in jail, what he did there, I am sure he wrote in his memoirs, the less juicy parts that is..
Lesson 1. LKAdvani should have offered to go much earlier or should have been asked to, even if politely. Mercy killing is not such a crime…
Corollary: He does look a trifle dunce like, how can you even imagine him as PM material. Tiny Lal Bahadur certainly looked more impressive.
Point 2. Did you guys not stop to think that the Nation may be bored with Hindutva or Muslim baiting, nay have no use for it? Well we had none of that nonsense during the Congress rule and the nation got on famously well except for this brief bit of trouble which we can put down to world economic chaos. We had terrorism but nothing as bad as in Advani’s time and which he could do nothing about.
Lesson 2: Even with Muslims within, the nation can survive and even do well. Not all Muslims are terrorists until you happen to start converting them with foolish innuendo and moronic action.
Point 3: Going after Manmohan was exactly the kind of muddle headed thinking that bubbles up when one is drunk and in a bar with friends. Making leader killing a strategy is futile in the case of Congress and Manmohan
1. because no one expected Manmohan to act like a leader of the Congress. He was expected to act like India’s Prime Minister, not your average bar brawler and everyone thought he carried it off rather well. Except you guys that is…
2. because the main enemy of BJP was not Manmohan but the Congress under Sonia and Advani had no courage to take her on simply because she had bruised them badly with her Mahatma Gandhi act last time.
Adding insult to self injury, the BJP and Advani took the Manmohan attack line rather too far, making it seem like Manmohan was the underdog and Advani was the local bully. Add to it some really inane comments from Modi. Advani would have gained much better by taking on Sonia and ignoring Manmohan or keeping him silent with a left handed compliment.
Lesson 3: The underdog always gets the emotional support and more often than not wins and it is not only so in the movies but in real life too.
No one likes bullies and villans, even at the best of times, the villains always die or retire hurt, as has happened to Advani.
Corollary 1: BJP and RSS types should watch more common man movies than j.o to Bharat Mata in their chaddies. Corollary 2: The BJP simply needs some one with a better sense of strategy.
Point 4: OK the last Congress govenrment did not travel as fast as we would have liked but it had a albatross in Carrot sorry Karat round its neck. People do understand that. People do understand that it was not Manmohans exclusive fault that the government did not move…
Lesson 4: People are not as dumb as the comments here imply. And they gave him a second chance and Carrot got the stick. Let us see if he survives his own party first.
Point 5: It is clear that the BJP’s core strength is good governance but obviously the SWORD of HINDUTVA has dangled dangerously on its core strength.
Asking for the vote is a labor of love, not hate and except in troubled times extreme agendas rarely work. Like Jayalalitha finds to her chagrin.
Lesson 5: bjp needs less bullies and more leaders with natural charisma, even if they are as ambivalent as vajpayee. Even if India did not love the BJP, it loved Vajpayee and he did not misuse that slender trust. But having let the dogs of Hindutva dance in his time, he too was given the boot, despite India shining.
Point 6: While many of you felt that INDIA was in DEEP trouble, many did not, even in terrorist hit Mumbai, as the results attest to.
Lesson 6 : While your views are welcome do not expect everyone to hold the same perceptions of the event as you. When you are in shit and happy, dont sing.
And more lessons in the days to come…
Just one request for the organisers of this forum:
The articles are fine, the opinions are generally just and sane, but what is with Advani’s memoirs on the blog.
Both unispiring at their best, much of it being bullshit too. He says he is an avid reader, but seems to have gained nothing out of it. He says that he crowned Vajpayee king but the king always tried to cut him to size. He talks about Pokhran, but everyone knows that Rao handed a note to Vajpayee that said that the A bomb was ready.
On seeing the note Advaniji was said to have exclaimed, what after all these years we have only one bomb and had started to rant against the Congress when someone more knowledgable told him it was the big A and not the small a. A for atom that is…BJP’s only job was to blast it. What can be so amazing or majboot about that?
Dull the man is, so is his writing. One expects much from a majboot leader, a leader who dared to lead the Nation but was cut to size by his own people. Like Ceaser, an apt figure for tragedy.
Cut those memoirs out guys. And that laughable piece of drivel Advani calls a blog. Otherwise you are doing fine.
Ya let me guess, this blog is not going to survive the next five years. I would rather take the bet that the new Congress government will…
Ride boldly into the SUNSET guys, we have tears in our eyes, we are all sorry to see you go…
Siddarth,
I did not say complicity in Raj Thackersay’s actions - I said acceptance or atleast a lack of opposition, perhaps because they have allied themselves overtly and clearly in the state with the same kind of ideology from Shiv Sena. PLEASE READ MY POST before latching on to half a sentence for your judgements.
And yes I am enlightened ’cause just as I saw only mild protestations in statements from Mr. Advani to the MNS triggered events in Mumbai and Nasik, I ALSO SAW and WAS DISGUSTED with Deshmukh twidling his thumbs and making excuses and wondering about whether something illegal was happening in people being pulled out of their taxis and being assaulted, with tacit approval of the state police.
Can you deny that at the time, none of the BJP leadership brought attention in no uncertain terms to that nefarious duplicity of the so-called ‘inclusive’ secularists or stood up against Raj Thakersay’s extra constitutional authority and muscle firmly and clearly to prevent people from being driven out of the state and their livelihood. AND I AM NOT GETTING THIS FROM MEDIA REPORTING BUT EXPERIENCE AND AN EAR T0 THE GROUND. Why should these people from UP and Bihar vote for BJP? They should not even be voting for Congress, but who is exposing to them the truth about the Congressi with any kind of credibility - NOT BJP.
Also what has any of this got to do with speaking against cast and religion based reservation - that is a separate issue. Some coherence and logical progression of thought might go a long way in helping you, my friend, and may be then you will realize that while the fawning indulgence for the Nehru Clan and their party on part of the mover and shakers in control of the media bully pulpit is as disgusting to me as the next person on this site, just crying media bias influencing people, and argumentative defensiveness is NOT going to cut it.
To Mr. MockingBuddha:
Can you please point us to a ‘Friends of Conngress/Nehru clan’ type of open forum site where we might post our critique of the thoughts and actions of your ‘pujyaniya’ or wait a minute, those thoughts and actions, if any, would first have to be out in the open candidly and subject to scrutiny before there can be a critique.
So how about you point to a medium, any medium - print, broadcast, web site where there is an honest and candid coverage of what they think and have actually done as a reflection of their stated caliber and let people decide - and presenting the nose and sarees of Priyanka Gandhi, and Rahul Gandhi making inroads in UP by harping on ancestral legacy, do not count as individual admiral qualities and capabilities - Making that case is the forte of the stalwarts of the Indian Media who do not know the difference between coverage and promotion on one hand and coverage and castigation on another.
Eagerly awaiting your response on this.
Folks - I see lot of venom being spilled over here. Lets give the credit where its due, people have given a clean mandate to Congress. Mistakes were made, which is apparent. We need to think starting now, how to turn this around next time. The ground work has to start now, there is a lot of work needs to be done… unless we rely on some unexpected to wave to run in BJP’s favour.
Virendra Singh
to RA
”
Also what has any of this got to do with speaking against cast and religion based reservation - that is a separate issue. Some coherence and logical progression of thought might go a long way in helping you, my friend”
I must admit that i conjured up that sentence just to defame the UPA somehow..anyway. i do agree with you but none of the parties said anything against Raj Thackrey..not even the ruling coalition.
for me the fact remains that in their lust for minority votes, the UPA didn’t refrain from attacking a brave police officer posthumously…
RA
another thing..its folly to expect the BJP to always behave in a moral manner (not caring about potential votes), whilst the UPA commits hateful things under the sun. Black and White morality is only an illusion. Survival and prosparity dwells in the gray. Ultimately it comes down to the lesser of two evils.
RA,
Agreed, there is no Congress forum of this kind, this forum is a great, even noble idea, I should say ideal. We certainly need more of it in India.
While the material here is in general non partisan, some of it is, which is to be expected. In a way, this forum is an example for all right thinking political parties which need another way to reach out to the people.
This is not the first time I make such a confessional, perhaps you should look up my earlier comments or read my stinker of a blog.
In the blog, I even characterised this forum and its drivers as the psalm singing saintly parrots and wondered what would happen when they get into the tumble of real politics, what if from Friends of, they became the real thing itself.
I understand that there is some kind of opposition to dynastic politics, but dynastic politics is not new either to politics or to democratic politics. You see it all over the place, and even in the BJP. But in no other party has the party become subservient to a dynasty as the Congress has and I accept such criticism as valid.
However I have mentioned here before that the BJP and the many Non Congress parties have failed to understand the charm of the dynasty on India and Indians as a whole and until that is understood the key to eliminating them or overriding them is lost or unavailable.
Rather than bluster on about dynastic politics and slavery and serfdom, political bigwigs ought to sit down and analyse why the Nehru scions have been so successful in the Indian polity.
The idea of India as a nation is not the generation of the British alone, it existed as an idea much before. Despite multiple kingdoms, rulers and religions, despite its various castes and religions and their variant periods of ascendancy this seemingly amorphous idea of India has held the people of this subcontinent together for many millenia even if they did nothing about it.
Anyone who seeks to hold this nation together should therefore by default hold a pan national appeal and presence. By virtue of their place in pre-Independence India and post Independent India, the Nehru clan has been able to consolidate that pan Indian image that is so essential to success in the electoral arena.
((And it works even for Varun Gandhi, who if he did not have the Nehru tag would have been another rabble rouser, another foul mouthed Katiyar or Uma Bharathi, nothing rare either to the BJP or to India. Sans the Nehru tag, this Baccha would have been another loud mouthed nobody and the best he could have achieved was get the National Snickering Act slapped on him.))
Adding to that pan Indian presence is the ideology that the dynasty has professed, they have always held the higher moral ground of the day, starting with Nehru to the current day, and even when such ideology clashes with the general trend of the day, like say in the late nineties when the Hindu mood was sort of on an upswing or when parochial sentiments racked the Congress in Nehruvian times.
To understand that, one has to remember that but for Indira Gandhi and Sanjay to a smaller extent no other later member of the clan has willingly thrust himself or herself into the hurly burly of Indian politics, they were called to serve duty and till now, except for the former mentioned two, have left it much cleaner and the party more vibrant than when they entered it.
But those are not the secrets of their success. Part of the secret is that everytime they have stepped inside the party, they have created mini revolutions within the party itself, moving it away from what it was then to something that was more with the mood of the times. It has happened time and again that a Nehru scion has revitalised the party by leading a revolution within rather than from without.
Starting with Motilal and running through the entire gamut of the dynasty has been this trend for timely internal revolution. Granted that the structure has been there, but it takes real courage and good instincts to foment an internal revolution particularly when you can simply sit and sail through it all. Like the Congress (S) leaders of old did.
If you are in a corporate arena you will understand that this internal revolutionising is a corporate mantra for companies that are in for the long haul, they have but to reinvent themselves in tune with the times. Example, IBM,
It is no different for long lived political organisations too and it is to the credit of the Nehru dynasty that they have instinctively understood this and carried it out succesfully.
Even Rao, their most succesful non Nehru clan Prime Minister understood the necessity of an econimic revolution and acted boldly when he had to. I remember Chidambaram saying in an interview that but for Rao’s courage, economic reforms may never have happened in India in the period it happened.
In leading such revolutions the Nehru dynasty have not only sensed the mood of the nation and helped satisfy it, but have by default provided the centralised Pan Indian control that is a natural corollary to the Pan Indian appeal and idea of India as a natural country.
You know that Indira was the first to do that, history says that she became first the darling of the masses before becoming the darling of the party. Sanjay, though as much an aberration as Varun was also seeking a revolution in his own way. Then Rajiv, the reluctant revolutionary, yet caught sleeping with Bofors in his bed, again the darling of the masses before being the darling of his party.
Even though he lost, the pan Indian appeal and the promise of centralised control ushered him back in. Sonia, another reluctant entrant, creating small revolutions in her own quiet ways and managing to hold and reinforce the high moral ground that the dynasty could now afford to take.
Rahul’s revolution seems simpler, more determined and more long term simply because he has the time and the patience to wait for what most people who support the Congress see as his due.
I guess he caught the imagination of the country first only during the nuclear debate, before that he was another baccha, however exalted in position, after the debate no one was in doubt that the scion had something worthwhile to say.
And curiously again, much in tune with the mood of young India. And now he speaks of that revitalisation that the young of India so desperately seek in the political spectrum. Whether he is succesful or not hardly matters, what matters is that he has caught the zietgist and is preparing to act on that.
So these are the critical factors, I guess I covered most of them, that keep the scions in the fray; the pan Indian presence, the pan Indian ideologies, the catching the zietgist, taking the high moral ground, whatever be its practice and this instinct for sensing and inciting revolutions from within that act as regenerators for the Grand Old Party, the last factor being the most important of them all.
Now is this difficult for any other party to implement? Not at all, yet other parties have generally not taken this less travelled road, with the result they find themselves in the sidelines, time and again.
In fact, till the rise of the BJP there was no other party which could do this or claim to do this with an appreciable degree of suceess.
Even the BJP,so much of a promise, has had its ideological baggage dissuading its reach to all-Indian power, one should also say that the leadership has not been really bold so as to reinvent itself away from its pre Independence RSS roots.
And in states where it has marginal presence like in say Tamil Nadu or Kerala where regional rather than religious feelings run high, the party has not ventured to make any further dent even when it was handed national power on a platter.
It speaks much about the BJP’s national and local leadership that they have been unwilling to go that extra mile for that pan Indian presence, perhaps the self perception of the BJP and its leadership has not really risen to the national level except in its RSS classes. As for Mayawati and the rest, the less said the better.
Having not done their homework properly it is not proper of the BJP to cry when it cannot taste success.
It does not need introspection or too much analysis to find out what went wrong, it needs purposeful action, like the one Rahul is triggering in his own party.
It requires a leader with more vison, imagination and personal charisma than personal ambition and in LK Advani they were poorly served in all of these parameters. There is no wonder that they have lost.
I have more to say but that will make this long reply even longer. I trust that what I have written satisfies you RA.
MOckingBuddha
Nehru clan has always held the higher moral ground!!! interesting\
anyway, what do you want? aren’t you tired of gloating? you actually searched the internet and found a secular, pro-BJP forum and what is it that you are trying to do?
go someplace, 25 percent of the 50 that voted would hail you as their savior…unbelievable
@ mockingbuddha,
Mate you can laugh for the moment,thank you very much for your concern regarding the survival of this site and please be assured we will survive and bounce back. The positive sign from this election is that people choose a national party/alliance against the opportunistic motely group of parties. In most of the states where there was a direct fight between BJP & the congress the electorate chose the former except in Rajasthan & Mahrastra. Most of the Congress gains comes from AP,Kerala,WB and its alliance is gaining from TN in all these states congress+ was in direct fight against the 3rd front, BJP neither has a presence or an alliance in these states hence the electorate chose cong+ for stability.
Now since the congress has a clear mandate it would have to live upto peoples expectations, remember in 1984 they had 400+ but in 1989 they were thrown out bcoz of the bofors scam? besides by 2014 there will a definite anti incumbency wave and BJP may not win it but congress may well just loose it!
The most difficult for BJP it seems is to keep its house in order!! I hope and pray we wont have a break away faction BJP(S). BJP will have to seriously ponder on how to win seats from AP,Kerala,TN, Orissa & WB which account for 164 seats (we won an amazing 3 number of seats from these states!!). Its not that the BJP doesnt know this but maybe they are out of resources to do it? I dont know but its strange that they are not present in those politically important states.
Before giving statements start analyzing the root cause:
Step 1: HISTORY:
1. When British has captured India they wanted brainwash Indians and make us feel that we are inferior to whites so they started brain washing Indians with their education which is popularly known as macaulyian forn of education , and the out come is Macaulay’s Children
This is statement given by him:
“It is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying knowledge to the great mass of the population”
2. Most of the educated class is Indian by looks but western by nature, It means most of us are transformed.
3. We forgot to question, we forgot to fight against the issues and accept what ever is given. we transformed into clerical class of people and not entrapuner class of people who can think what is right and are self motivated.
Step 2: RECENT PAST:
1. Before Independence Bagangadhar tilak started celebrating Ganesha chaturdhi to motivate people.
2. In Tamil Nadu DMK started showing Brahmins as bad to unite other castes .
3. If you to Indira Gandhi it is the slogan Garibhi hataav which brought her to power.
4. If you take Andhra Pradesh situation, NTR came to power because of his roles like Krishna, & Rama not just because of 2Rs Rice or ban on liquor.He could do miracles and win Assembly with a very short span of time, nor because of incompetency of the ruling government.
5. Death of Rajiv Gandhi created ripples among people and brought Congress to power.
6. Take the example of PV narashimha Rao , inspite of ruling the country in the best possible way with resources he has. Inspite of brining a treamondus change in Indias financial situatiuons he could not win. This will never be the case in Developed nation.
7. If you take BJP it became a national party only after they took babri mashid issue. It got into power in 1999 because of war with Pakistan.
8. Narendra Modi became a very famous leader because of Gujarat Riots and nothing else..
Iam just giving few examples. We need to understand that peoples emotion has to be raised . It needs issues like Religion / War or issues which a common man faces daily.
Step3: Current Situation:
If you take the current situation, BJP did not speak any thing about Religion . They did not try to unite Hindus by openly supporting Hindus.
They could have done dharnas in Tamil nadu saying Tamilians are getting killed in Tamil nadu and could have tried to enter in Tamil Nadu. Karunanidhi gained peoples support by just doing 4 hour hunger strike. Many people in Tamil nadu were feeling bad because their relatives in Srilanka are strugulling.Through out India they could have started agitations saying Hindus in Srilanka are getting killed.
There is no mention of Religion in BJP’s manifesto or they neighter they took a open stance in favour of Hindus, while congress and other’s took a stance in favour of Muslims
For educated people they have a good manifesto but not good to motivate for common man.
They need issues like Ramjanmabhumi issues. I think if they start looking they will find number of issues.
Open more thing is they haven’t elevated any leader in UP who is dynamic and emotional like uma bharathi. They don’t have a face in UP whom they can project. They should project a leader to gain their vote base.
Good schems and Ideology brings some change but not much, because a common man in India doesn’t understand all these things. It’s a fact, and you cannot blame them also because a common man in India is still struggles for day today life and he is not matured enough to understand all these things like terrorism, or forgets easily.
People need a emotion whether you give them by religion, or war they go with you.
BJP should remember that minority will never vote for them, and they should look for majority.
They seriuoly lacked direction and agenda to impress common people.
If they need to win they should provoke religion or sit in their home as loosers always.
Last point is : BJP doesn’t have media support . They need to have national channel which propogates their views. They need to have movies which are pro Hindu , like rangda basanthi which anti BJP, people watch movies and get motivated.We need to have movies based on books like Lajja (the after effects of Ramjanma bhumi). How many know that more than one crore hindus were murdered brutally in Bangladesh got Independence. We need to have movies on these issues to make people know the reality. If they are lacking Ideas ask the BJP think tank come to me. I will show them the way to motivate people,and show them how to win .
If any BJP leader reading this comment wants to contact me plz do. My numb : 9741309870.
They the congress pvt family co. , couldnot save their two PMs have now ruled India without direct responsibility, fooling people with lies and the illegal wealth. The leftist and the tamilians who have met their Waterloo because of these congresi game plan will anihilate them because these are the monster created by this congresi as was the case with bhindrewalla and LTTE . Bjp should continue with it’s nationalist policy and should encourage the expirienced of ok advaniji, should encourage Shri narrendra midi for the real development work carried out which is unprecoted and ever done in India also it’s very important encourage youth leader like varun to promote hindutva which is not religion but way of life and for which people of India stand for, it should be made clear to all who stay in india .jai hind and jai Shri ram
JAI SHRI RAM
Unity is the best policy but in bjp there is no unity.They seriuoly lacked direction and agenda to impress common people.It is nessary for them to seriously think over it and take serious and sincere steps towards it.
कांग्रेस पक्षपाती चैनल्स का बहिष्कार करो ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Great going guys.
Let me tell you that I’m a friend of congress. I have always been so since my early teenage. I was really worried, that BJP might have learned some lessons from debacle in 2004 and might pose a challenge for my beloved party. But after the results and the comments on this post, I’m assured, you people are never going to learn anything.
Be caught in history forever.
You would speak about Somnath temple that was distroyed in 1100
You would speak about babari masjid that was constructed in 1400
You would speak about ram sethu that was constructed no one knows when.
BJP and sangh parivaar have very competentaly demonstrated that they never had nor will ever have vision for future.Because RSS shskha brainwashes you people to always look back and be nostalgic about the past.
And that suits us, friends of congress. Nehru, Lal Bahadur, Rajeev , Narasimha Rao all were forward looking and talked about future. And Manmohan Singh is doing same. Because they know that future is where we all would be. There is no point in turning back in the history.
So friends of BJP, wish you all a nice and long chintan.
Mockingbuddha:
You and I need to go offline in our discussion of your celebration of the Nehru clan and their ‘revolutionary’ proclivities and reasons for their Pan Indian appeal etc. ’cause the space here is limited. All I can say is these guys have been towing pretty much the same line for 62 years and you don’t see it. Whatever needs to happen with the BJP is a separate matter.
The bottom line is there are different kinds of voters: high information voters, low information voters, no information voters, misinformation voters and then the la-la land voters. The challenge for any successful democracy is to have as many as possible high information voters and on this account there is a loooot of work to be done in the homeland, particularly when misinformation voting and la-la land thinking is very cleverly inculcated and promoted by the supremos in control most of the 62 years, and nobody asks the hard questions.
BTW: The ‘Grand Old Party’ title is taken for over 200 years by the Republican Party in the U.S. So exhibit some originality and find another title for your family business - I would suggest ‘Nehru Clan Party’ - more reflective of the real situation - or does this work to rope in the youth like the ‘come-awnn, come-awnn’ in the Jai Ho ads?
And let me know if you would like to have a friendly chat/discussion in reference to your post, and we can find a way to make that happen.
Kiran:
So you have no interest in history, because you do not need to know the background and origin and journey of a society and civilization to have any sense of where you go in the future. Very nice.
Would it interest you more if I told you there is an entire field of study and profession of Historic Preservation, originated in Europe and practiced all over the western world considering going where the west goes and has been is the life purpose of the ‘hip’ people in India un-bothered about indigenous history and all into the future.
So pray tell, What has your Doctor Manmohan Singh told you about the future - he is as you said talking about it, isn’t he? What will it look like ten or let us say five years down the road - the big picture - India more secure, employment for all, education for all, electricity in all villages - you know development and security from the party who have sold themselves as being big on development.
Find out, get a commitment, write it down so that you have something to refer to five years later in whether you have arrived at the promised future or it was all a bluff. It is quite simple really - does not require much chintan - just paper, pen and information, unless five years old is history and you really don’t care.
very well,
But I think I don’t need to explain my stand any further. Ppl of India, the same “low information voters” as per your opinions have spoken in a decisive way.
So great grandson of Mr. Motilal Nehru (And yes, you forgot to mention the first Nehru to catch imagination of people of India) is all set to be prime minister in 2014.
See we too have a lil sence of history here. Progressive looking history that is.
If you still insist on having a discussion, you may add kjramkunwar@gmail.com in gtalk
I am really upset with this verdict. I have decided I will join the politics and work for BJP.
So now Advani and BJP can take spades, cement, concrete and use the money they got to build Ram temple and deliver it first.
F**king Advani can’t even build a temple and he and his a@@ licking Modi were off to build a nation.
F**K BJP. For now Congress is the best option and lets hope they induct youth in cabinet.
We do need second alternative but GOD, let it not be BJP.
5 years Dr. Singh government will do all the development and then PM in waiting Modi will take all the credit for India’s development.
Modi is a breaker and not a maker. All the experience of Keshubhai and Sr. BJP leaders was sidelined.
No corporation can succeed if its Sr. Management is more of a breaker, dictator and does not take team along for development.
What Modi projected was just a hype. Development is all across India be it Hyderabad, Noida, etc and in many cases - the development is far superior to that in Gujarat.
Modi talks about Vibrant Gujarat and eProjects. He can’t even get good Broadband connectivity in Gujarat despite being in power all these years. What development was he talking about?
Gujarat? D**khead Modi can’t even get connectivity in Gandhinagar. BJP is in Power in Gujarat for past 20 years.
Sidharth,
————
1. Interesting but perhaps true…
2. Have been posting almost since the beginning of this forum I guess, surely if you had said something original or interesting in the comments I would have noticed and responded. Did you. I am sorry that I did not notice. I will certainly try to go through the old content.
3. The BJP story is full of promise but badly mismanaged, any harm in pointing that out? Much better than thoughtless hagiography.
PS: Site Admin guys, you should perhaps think of archiving this site offline. It may help in the next elections. No point repeating old mistakes.
The Count,
————–
I certainly wish BJP well on its 2014 campaign, but couldnt help notice that the just concluded one was badly bungled.
BJP finds it difficult in the southern states simply because regional inclinations have historically overshadowed religious inclinations there, religion was never attractive as a cohesive force in its history.
The political and social structure is more inclusive there, notice that unlike in the North, very few people there actually use caste based surnames.
Having gained in putting religion in its proper place, and having gained from it socially and structurally, I doubt if people there want to return to the old divisive heirarchies. No wonder then that the BJP/RSS’s khichdi like agenda of religion, culture and crankiness all improperly mixed finds few supporters in the South.
The idea of separating Church and State was once considered Enlightenment, I am sure that it is still so. Which is why the BJP and its cadres are seen as boors and backwards forever harping on things long gone. This is a new century and a new country.
Such ideas will become increasingly anachronistic than attractive and this false idea of Indian culture that the Hindutva brigade holds and tries to persist is increasingly seen as an embarrasment. It truly is…
BJP succeeded in Karnataka not because of its ideology, but because it offered a solid choice to the incestual and inept bungling between the Congress and the Janata Dal. I guess that to survive, we will have to continue to offer more of the same, solid good governance.
I seriously doubt that this site can survive for the next five years, what you guys going to talk about? Pav bhaji recipes? BJP has historically proved to be a moribund opposition party waking up only at election time, one reason why it lost this time, so what will the friends of BJP do until then?
I suggest that you not lose the steam that you have all worked up, the passion and patrotism that I can see here and convert it into something more meaningful and actionable. While half of the commenters here have been atrocious, the other half has been well considered and thoughtful. If I have gone beserk at times, accept my apologies.
ravi,
——
did you not realise that people have just rejected this kind of divisive ideologies? all that was the past. BJP may have needed Hindutva to get its national flavor, but in todays context, it can easily win without talking Hindutva or the other absurdities you suggest. Even Modi is chastened and sees sense, why not you?
RA,
——
the same line yes, but continually fine tuned to new realities, which was my core talking point.
The BJP’s stated agenda and ideology has changed but little in these fifty years after Independence. Come back fifty years from now and talk to a BJP cadre guy and I am sure he will spout the same old stories, foreign rulers, muslim nature & breeding, the need for jingoistic patriotism, prat prat prat, just as vapid as the Communists, blood brothers, who also live in another era that has almost disappeared. Come on yaar, the world changes and is changing drastically. Let us look ahead.
Interestingly I havent listened to Jai Ho, at least the complete version, for most of us in the South, ARR’s music has lost its relevance and is simply repetitive or just not interesting enough. As for it being the Congress band march tune, well I havent heard them play it, so cannot comment.
ya, you can write to me at mockingbuddha@gmail.com.
Sidharth,
————
1. Interesting but perhaps true…
2. Have been posting almost since the beginning of this forum I guess, surely if you had said something original or interesting in the comments I would have noticed and responded. Did you. I am sorry that I did not notice. I will certainly try to go through the old content.
3. The BJP story is full of promise but badly mismanaged, any harm in pointing that out? Much better than thoughtless hagiography.
PS: Site Admin guys, you should perhaps think of archiving this site locally. It may help in the next elections. No point repeating old mistakes.
The Count,
————–
I certainly wish BJP on its 2014 campaign, but couldnt help notice that the just concluded one was badly bungled.
BJP finds it difficult in the southern states simply because regional inclinations have historically overshadowed religious inclinations there, religion was never attractive as a cohesive force in its history.
The political and social structure is more inclusive there, notice that unlike in the North, very few people there actually use caste based surnames. Having gained in putting religion in its proper place, and having gained from it socially and structurally, I doubt if people there want to return to the old divisive heirarchies. No wonder then that the BJP/RSS’s khichdi like agenda of religion, culture and crankiness all improperly mixed finds few supporters.
The idea of separating Church and State was once considered Enlightenment, I am sure that it is still so. Which is why the BJP and its cadres are seen as boors and backwards forever harping on things long gone. This is a new century and a new country. Such ideas will become increasingly anachronistic than attractive and this false idea of Indian culture that the Hindutva brigade holds and tries to persist is increasingly seen as an embarrasment. It truly is…
BJP succeeded in Karnataka not because of its ideology, but because it offered a solid choice to the incestual and inept bungling between the Congress and the Janata Dal. I guess you will have to continue to offer more of the same, solid good governance.
I seriously doubt that this site can survive for the next five years, what you guys going to talk about? Pav bhaji recipes? BJP has historically proved to be a moribund opposition party waking up only at election time, one reason why it lost this time, so what will the friends of BJP do until then?
I suggest that you not lose the steam that you have all worked up, the passion and patrotism that I can see here and convert it into something more meaningful and actionable. While half of the commenters here have been atrocious, the other half has been well considered and thoughtful. If I have gone beserk at times, accept my apologies.
ravi,
——
did you not realise that people have just rejected this kind of divisive ideologies? all that was the past. BJP may have needed Hindutva to get its national flavor, but in todays context, it can easily win without talking Hindutva or the other absurdities you suggest. Even Modi is chastened and sees sense, why not you?
RA,
——
the same line yes, but continually fine tuned to new realities, which was my core talking point. The BJP’s stated agenda and ideology has changed but little in these fifty years after Independence. Come back fifty years from now and talk to a BJP cadre guy and I am sure he will spout the same old stories, foreign rulers, muslim nature & breeding, the need for jingoistic patriotism, prat prat prat, just as vapid as the Communists, blood brothers, who also live in another era that has almost disappeared. Come on yaar, the world changes and is changing drastically. Let us look ahead.
Interestingly I havent listened to Jai Ho, at least the complete version, for most of us in the South, ARR’s music has lost its relevance and is simply repetitive or just not interesting enough. As for it being the Congress band march tune, well I havent heard them play it, so cannot comment.
ya, you can write to me at mockingbuddha@gmail.com.
General Note to all Hindutva enthusiasts:
To understand what being a Hindu is and if you are serious about it, I guess you should abandon reading the hotchpotch that is the Bhagvad Gita or its equally silly sister the Mahabharatha and go back to its roots, the roots from which the ideas in them originated, the Upanishads and the Vedas, where these ideas are better illustrated and illuminated.
Only then can you track the ideas that made this great religion and understand not only their import but also their importance. And more importantly, their message. The Gita is only a poor mans version of great ideas and as a condensed edition is really a hotchpotch.
Go ahead and do that, because once you truly become a Hindu you can never condone Hindutva and its absurdities. I have become a Hindu and proud to be one.
sorry guys, there seems to be a stuck key, so the message got duplicated. sorry for the inconv…
When BJP lost in 2004 instead of accepting defeat gracefully they relentlessly attacked congress on everything and everywhere.Even the campaign of LK Advani was completely based on attacking congress on things like unemployment,poverty,etc. A person does not need to reminded that he is unemployed or poor, Instead the BJP should have convinced why they are better than congress and how they could solve the problems that congress have failed to solve. But instead BJP used vitriolic language against congress, Refused to except their shortcomings, launched personalised attacks
, used cynical rhetoric instead meaningful and healthy criticism. If they do not come out of denial,they will be totally routed in the next elections.
You are a little preachy there, Mockingbuddha armed with your knowledge of the Vedas, and critique of the Gita, in your, shall we say, categorically ’superior’ understanding of Hinduism.
I recently saw a documentary about the influence of ‘Kabir’ in interior, mostly rural India - the sufi/bhakti 15th century poet who mocked all ritualistic worship - Hindu and Muslim, social divisions, and wrote about the ‘Nirgun’ God and oneness of the individual with the divine and emphasized love. The documentary takes one through reaches of India and introduces one to people - who understand Kabir (even while engaging in some rituals), have never read the Vedas or any other big text, do not know what is in there but they consider themselves Hindus and are accepted in Society as such like those who might have read any number of other texts.
And that is what Hinduism is all about, from my perspective, not either/or, better/worse, it is multifaceted and a confluence and continuum, it is protest and it is devotion, with ideas equally valid depending on your connection.
So now that you have read the Vedas - I assume - it is a lot of reading - read Kabir - the ‘Bhakti’ ideas were from my understanding just germinating in the Vedas, and then if you have time, may be you can read the ‘Gita’ and if you can do that with humility you might find something in this ‘hotch-potch’ as you call it you missed before - entirely up to you, no pressure :-).
Also, in your response to my post, you wrote:
‘the same line yes, but continually fine tuned to new realities, which was my core talking point.’
And my point is fine tuning to what effect, with what purpose and whose benefit? Those are the questions that must be asked if the story is to be about India, Indian society and her people, which is much bigger than any one personality or family, even though it may not feel like it with virtually every park, major building, bridge, whatever,in the country named after the Nehru’s, erasing and leaving no room for any other icon in the public consciousness.
No need to worry about BJP agenda and it’s leaders, it’s very fine and far too worthwhile than congress past track record. In elections it’s strategy that counts. The congress managed better strategy-although itnmay be based on lies, money power and persitent attack in not allowing BJPs viewpoint to reach the masses. In campaign they were constantly hitting below belt which is not BJPs. CUP of tea.don’t relly on opponents certificate of communilism. To talk for hindutava is no crime, this viewpoint must be brought to fore, it’s much better than congressi vote bank politics. Beleive in tactical alliances, put to size people like sharad yadav and nitesh, likes of naveen patnaik should be ejected early before they create dificult sitution. They should be made to understand the minimum programme of governance in Bihar, they cannot have perogative to teach lessons on secularism like congress. If they prefer votebank policies of congress let them fight BJP from outside and not within. This will one day makenthem look like deve gowda, lalu, pashwan and sorts of mulatam and leftist and tdp and amma and maya. These groups have made mockery of themselves and look like street dogs with no house to stay, let these so called secularist allign with cancerous congress. The temporary phase of anti national policies will not last long.
BJP should remain party with diffence and development, then only it can strong and stable. Vance Mataram
“So great grandson of Mr. Motilal Nehru (And yes, you forgot to mention the first Nehru to catch imagination of people of India) is all set to be prime minister in 2014.”
So is that all Dr Manmohan Singh has told you about the future - where are you in this future? - is democracy supposed to be about what happens to and for the governed or the ruler?
You make my point about low information voter, but to not even have the curiosity to know more in this ’so there’ tone - nothing progressive about that at all.
I would ask you to explain what you mean by progressive looking history - but if your idea of democracy is power handed down generationally by virtue of lineage exclusively, there is really no point. Might as well call India a principality with voters ratifying the de-facto royalty every five years in a decisive fashion. For what exactly? - there is no need to know any specifics except somebody is somebody’s grandson or great grandson.
And I do not insist on anything. Discussion and conversations are not one way streets that can be carried out by one sided insistence. There needs to be a desire to engage on both sides. I do not sense that in this ’so there’ tone of your post in response to a perfectly rational question, and that has nothing to do with BJP or Congress or whoever - I am no hard core BJP fan or a proponent of all of what is associated with them. I just think a spirit of inquiry is an essential part of progressive thinking and growth. You too might have come to that conclusion had there been an interest in understanding how societies have grown and developed through the years.
All the best.
Kiran:
“So great grandson of Mr. Motilal Nehru (And yes, you forgot to mention the first Nehru to catch imagination of people of India) is all set to be prime minister in 2014.”
So is that all Dr Manmohan Singh has told you about the future - where are you in this future? - is democracy supposed to be about what happens to and for the governed or the ruler?
You make my point about low information voter, but to not even have the curiosity to know more in this ’so there’ tone - nothing progressive about that at all.
I would ask you to explain what you mean by progressive looking history - but if your idea of democracy is power handed down generationally by virtue of lineage exclusively, there is really no point. Might as well call India a principality with voters ratifying the de-facto royalty every five years in a decisive fashion. For what exactly? - there is no need to know any specifics except somebody is somebody’s grandson or great grandson.
And I do not insist on anything. Discussion and conversations are not one way streets that can be carried out by one sided insistence. There needs to be a desire to engage on both sides. I do not sense that in this ’so there’ tone of your post in response to a perfectly rational question - and that has nothing to do with BJP or Congress or whoever - I am no hard core BJP fan - or a proponent of all of what is associated with them. I just think a spirit of inquiry is an essential part of progressive thinking and growth. You too might have come to that conclusion had there been an interest in understanding how societies have grown and developed through the years.
All the best.
Sorry for the repost.
Pity the Nation”, by Khalil Gibran
Pity the nation that is full of beliefs and empty of religion.
Pity the nation that acclaims the bully as hero,
and that deems the glittering conqueror bountiful.
Pity the nation that raises not its voice
save when it walks in a funeral,
boasts not except among its ruins,
and will rebel not save when its neck is laid
between the sword and the block.
Pity the nation whose statesman is a fox,
whose philosopher is a juggler,
and whose art is the art of patching and mimicking.
Pity the nation that welcomes its new ruler with trumpeting,
and farewells him with hooting,
only to welcome another with trumpeting again.
Pity the nation whose sages are dumb with years
and whose strong men are yet in the cradle.
Pity the nation divided into into fragments,
each fragment deeming itself a nation.
Dear RA,
To say that the rulers are chosen on dynastic lines is falacy. India is a democratic country. Whoever adresses the aspirations of the people of this country. And congress has been doing that. This party has built the nation.
Whatever good you are seeing in this country is the result of progreesive and forward looking policies of Congress.
What other country you can name that has achieved even half as much as India that got independence in the middle of last century? Can you just name a single country please?
You talk about Japan that was destroyed completely but forget the McArthur plan that provided tremendous support for Japan post WW2.And they do not need to spend a single yen on their security as US is taking care of their defence under the same plan.
Same with germany. most of the europe was destroyed in WW2 and Marshal Plan from US helped them rebuild it. And please neither japan nor Germany were colonised ever so their economy was still vibrant. By the way, many friendofbjp still believe that British Rule was better than Congress rule. Don’t take my word for it,just probe a swayamsevak on this and satisfy yourself.
Now let’s see the progressive vision of Congress and compare the responces of the RSS, Janasangh, and BJP
India started on it’s own with an economy which could not even feed adequately half of it’s people. India invested heavily in agriculture and within 10 years became self sufficient.
It was Congresse’s decision to invest heavily in basic industries,space program, nuclear program and highest standards of technical education in this country(despite knowing the consequences of high inflation, and despite knowing that it would be unpopular with electorate!! But hard decisions have to be taken) . Jansangh opposed these decision as did the communists.
Lal Bahadur Shastri didn’t get much time but he lead India into comprehensive victory in war against Pakistan, and reinforced the green Revolution.
Indira Gandhi nationalised the insurance sector and banks. This was necessary, the strong banking structure, deep penitrtion of banking, you see today is the result of this forward looking decision. Start of the nuclear program is another one.
When Khalistani movement turned violent and threatened to disintegrate the country, Indira Gandhi did not hesitate to take tough decisions to bring them in main stream. She refused to sack Sikh boduguards despite having inteligence input of possible attempt of her assasination. This is what I call Mazboot Neta and Nirnayak sarkaar. Now compare this with Kandahaar please!!
Rajeev gandhi was offcource the first to talk about computers and telecommunication revolution. What was BJP’s stand at that time? Do you remeber that? It was outright hostility. When Rajeev was designing policies to take India to 21st century, Your beloved Mr Advani was busy flaring emotions on somnath and Ayodhya. By the way ,do you know that Somnath Temple was a notorious source of exploitation of agrarians? That 1000 villages revenue was earmarked just to adore the idol of somnath with gold and enrich the pujari’s of the somnath temple?
After the fall of Berlin wall, when the whole world was busy adjusting their economies to new cource, and Narasimha Rao aptly and swifly changing cource to prepare india for the paradigm shift, your beloved Mr. Advani was busy building a ” Masjid-demolitio-and-mandir-construction-company”.
When BJP came to power, Honourable Mr. Vajpayee( Yes, though I wouldn’t have ever voted him because of his party, I respect him as much as Nehru) built upon the strengths that India had gathered in so many years, due credit to him for that. But when it came to elections, it was again VHP and company that was calling shots in BJP. Instead of what we are going to do in future, your folks trumpeted what they had done.
You know what? BJP cannot connect to common people of India, mostly Hindu’s, because they haven’t understood Hindutva at all. They think that Uppercaste version of Hinduism or brahmanism as hindutva only. I am a hindu, but don’t think I need to be associated in any way with the version of Hinduism that Jansangh, Hindu Mahasabha, RSS, VHP etc are promoting.
Kiran:
Agree with your last paragraph. As for the rest, one there are two sides to every story, and secondly it is never a good idea to just selectively pick and choose pieces of information and try to make it about a glowing picture that exists only in your mind.
The fact of the matter is India was a stagnant country until the 1990s, with very little opportunity for people, even middle class people to get ahead in life, and rotting basic infrastructure that is an essential basis for development of all kind. Thank you for recognizing the contributions of Mr. Narsimha Rao and Mr. Vajpayee (who you did not vote for) - both leaders, not of the dynasty.
You make a claim about a strong banking structure, and deep penetration - cortsey Mrs. Indira Gandhi, seventy percent of the Indian people in this day and time have NO access to formal financing - totally dependent on loan sharks at 120 percent and more interest.
No body can deny Pandit Nehru’s contribution in establishing Technical institutes of higher learning, and how have they been eroded under the past Congress led administration under the leadership of Sonia Gandhi, to just keep pushing to expand draconian, mindless quota allocation and no performance standards reservation policies, when there are better ways to include and franchise the dis-enfrachised. What is so progressive about that?
You can possibly make some judgments about one term of the same administration (essentially the same individuals and team) based on the record of the previous, but you can’t keep rolling over and attributing the credit for what was done by one generation over to the next to the next, like achievements is something passed on in the genes, and then make it about the genes of the Nehru family - who in the minds of the Congress voter are synonymous with the Party and indeed all of the Party, other wise Narsimha Rao wouldn’t have had such a tough time, and Congress would have continued even without the family.
There has been a lot written about in the praises of Rajiv Gandhi’s achievements in the tele-communications areas, and I will not argue with that, or support what was the BJP stance at the time. I wish somebody would write a couple of honest and candid books that pay attention to his other deeds for a total picture, like:
1. the damage done in undermining the Supreme Court, and making deeper inroads into further dis-enfranchising the already disenfranchised in the Shah Bano case. There are critical, momentous decisions that leave a lasting impression and test the mettle of a leader - Rajiv Gandhi failed that test. With all the talk about protection of ‘The minority’ all the practice has been is to throw crumbs of patronization and do the bidding of the hard line.
2. How much did he put the taxpayers into debt by borrowing from the world left, right and center to spend on consumer goods - what was the return? and what did it take to recover from it - Please do some research on it.
2. Initiated an environment in Kashmir that fostered terrorism and militancy and then just washed his hands off its consequences, for all practical purposes. At least he did not wash his hands of the militancy Indira Gandhi created and fostered in Punjab for political power grab. But to first create a violent problem, let it get out of hand and then move in to suppress it with the most brutal and excessive means possible and that is a glowing achievement - how sick is that?
And then for the family led Congress to have the gall to propogandise POTA, any anti terrorism law as anti minority - only to brand BJP as communalist and leverage themselves as secular and protectors of the minority - is that belief in an ideology or is it using and abusing it for self serving purposes?
The culture of excessive force, brutality in police work is fine as long as it works for the Family but would not support, not just POTA, but ANY legal framework for counter terrorism action and let people get killed - poor people, middle class people - in bomb blast after blast and be totally indifferent to it, and follow it up with tepid response to Mumbai, when all the mover and shakers get up in arms because now it was their turn to be in the line of fire with attacks on the joints of the rich and famous.
On top of it, Mr. Manmohan Singh makes tall claims about their counter-terrorism prowess in the campaign by spinning the response in Mumbai - security forces so crippled as a result of administrative negligence and incompetence, it takes sixty hours to take care of ten guys, allowed to run rampant in the city - as a great achievement, and then make any critique of that an insult to the security forces and politicization to distract and escape responsibility for the utter failure of the Congress led UPA in this regard - nothing progressive about it, it is dishonest and DIRTY politics. AND CONGRESS VOTERS BUY IT.
Now, if you are thinking of reminding me of Khandahar, please also let me know what you think Madam Gandhi led Congress would have done in a situation when 100 plane passengers are stuck under the gun in not particularly friendly territory. I would not put it past them to let them all be killed if the world was not watching - after all, none of them were a daughter of some big shot minister in Kashmir for whose life they exchanged militants in Kashnir - but in the exact same situation of high visibility.
If ever there is ever an opportunity for you or a forum, where you can come face to face interactively with the Powers that be in the Congress Party as opposed to the current exposure in glorifying imagery and feel good sound bytes in controlled situations, may be you can ask them.
I could go on, but this is getting to be quite long. Also as I said before, I am no hard core fan of the BJP or a supporter of all that is falsely or rightly associated with the Party - I know the pros and cons, and can also look past the externally generated falsehoods.
The fact of the matter is that in BJP there was during the Vajpayee administration and still is core team that believes in nation building for all people and have set forth an agenda on how to do it, not just in throwing sops for ‘The Minority’ in totally hair brained and irrational fashion, like reservations based on religion persuasion as the criteria, for Muslims.
Is religious persuasion in a country where people can be whatever religion they want to be an impermeable boundary like caste, where your caste stays what you are born into (and by impermeable boundary I do not mean that anybody is superior or inferior based on caste - just in case that is the characterization of my statement that comes to your mind). What I mean is what will be the cut off date for when somebody is a Muslim for reservation purposes. What if resource rich non muslims convert to claim an assured quota job - how would that help a resource poor life long, born into the religion, Muslim, and if you have made a specific religious pursuasion the condition for access to resources - How is that secular and what does it say about Freedom of Religion - a free will choice for people to choose their religious pursuasion - free will being the operative word.
If you are a resource poor, not covered under caste based reservation, Hindu/Non-Muslim (Buddhist, Sikh, Jain or any number of other MINORITY communities in the nation) and do not have access to loans or want a job, you have to convert?
It is one thing to say the faiths which believe in prosalytization can prosalytize.. but according to the so-called secular ideology promoted by Congress not only can they do so through chicanery, fradulent, and coercive practices engaged in by Hard Core, fundamentalist Christian organizations (by which I do not mean that all Missions or Christian Organizations are hard core, fundamentalist - if you are tempted to make that characterization of my statement) - the Government will fund conversions at taxpayer expense (who are of all persusions - majority being Hindu) in paychecks and benefits for quota jobs and benefits for a specific religious persuasion, under the banner of secularism, where secularism goes by this sound byte of ‘embodiment’ of all ALL religions, and then to try to drown out any opposition or questioning of such crazy, keep the vote bank happy to stay in power, policies as Anti Muslim, and Communalism is DIRTY POLITICS and POLITICAL INTIMIDATION - and Congress voters buy it as secularism and inclusion.
It seems from your post that you are particularly averse to Mr. Advani - fair enough. You liked Mr. Vajpayee - what if in 2014 there is leadership in BJP that you are not averse to - Would you vote for them, or atleast look past the mischaracterization and spin and evaluate their positions in an unbiased fashion. No, because your mind is already made up in favor of Rahul Gandhi - why - the Great grandson of Motilal Nehru - This is not democracy - this is not even a democratic mindset.
Maybe, I am banging my head against a wall, but in a democracy, where you have the power to choose, it is important to see the Pros and Cons and look past hype and spin, instead of constantly pushing blind adoration, and then you can be the one governed and not the ruled.
Lesson 2
“Vote for Governance
BJP istead raised irrelavent issues such as terrorism, powerful leader etc. Why Modi won
in Gujart, Yedi in Karnataka, Nithish in Bihar is example”
“We want good governance and nothing else.”
Sujith:
What does good governance means to you. Terrorism is and irrelevant issue?!! Bomb blast after bomb blast - people died and were left twisting in the wind. No attempt at prevention - no attempt at support and relief after the fact - no emergency services or administration presence at the scene in ambulances, help for the injured - just Shivraj Patil changing his shirt every hour with empty words of yeh karange, woh karenge in the future tense after every attack until Mumbai - IS THAT GOOD GOVERNANCE.
‘Powers that be’ stealing from the country for fat swiss bank accounts, in a nation where majority lives below the Poverty line, and then trying to distract and cover up their misdeed by name calling - Is that good Governance.
All road/infrastructure development at a virtual stand still in favor of non performing, marginally effective “throw some crumbs of low wage job handouts at the poor and keep them in poverty” NREGA schemes at great expense to those paying taxes - Is that good Governance to you.
Currency reserves to deficits - all blown away in five years - Is that good Governance to you?
Good Governance is NOT a feel good sound byte just to be included in talking points that is then pushed and highlighted by a doting media as a real characteristic of any Party - the record needs to be examined, and policy positions and administrative actions need to be examined to see if the claim of good governance is supported by ground realities. What good has happened in the past five years of UPA is NOT because of the government - it is because of the entrepreneurial Indian spirit - The government was just not an obstruction in standing in the way of people doing good things. The UPA government was too busy twidling their thumbs, freeloading on public funds while conveniently claiming credit for the results of another’s labor - IF that is good governance, why does India need a government at all?
So please, do an exercise, put down on a piece of paper the specifics of all that you think Good Governance is and what it should yield, and which of those things Congress-led UPA delivered on the past five years, what are their ‘Aam Admi’ policies and what that means on the ground in the kind of life you and your neighbors, and your friends, and other people you come in contact with or see around you - the citizens, ordinary members of Indian society - get to lead. The Congress manifesto might be good starting point for your information gathering.
Many of the Indian independence rullers were educated in England and spoke weel,had spirituality and statesmanship.eg Ghandiji,Nehru,Saint Vinobaji to name but a few.
However,some of the BJP politicians were making negative and petty attacks.eg calling congress Gudia and Budhia and bashing Muslims etc .
Instead of saying the that they would make India a global power like china but with a difference and with humane and just Hindu values of Mother cow protection,respect and equal opportunities for women and bringing black money home to India to help its commerce,business and development and progress of its people and also promoting safe sex and birth control like china has done by financial incentives and discipline.
I was also surprised when I visited India four years ago compared to my visit to India in late 1950s when my father wanted to enrol my brother,sister and myself in a boarding school in Pune as kenya didnt have universities or colleges for all school leavers.the change was that most of the folks in Bombay were wearing jeans,T shirts and western clothes compared to post independence when everywhere one saw Khadi white clothes.
So shouldnt BJP go back to basics and start a new campaign of “Swedeshi” i.e home grown clothes and manufacture to create jobs and opportunities for all and also realise that the Indian youth is now inspired by western media,music ,song and dance instead of Hindu culture,classical music and dance and Cricket has also become a new religion.
so shouldnt BJP work towards buying up TV channels like Star and Zee TV and also launch or buy out English newspapers so that it can counter act any propaganda by the opposition and shouldnt BJP be a clean party and disqualify any one with criminal convictions and be seen as an honest party?may be then it would have a chance of winning majority hindu as well as some christian and muslim votes.Honesty and decency is the best Policy ,which used to be the English slogan many moons ago in UK.
RA,
Sorry for a belated response. You are right, perhaps I should have said read Kabir, nowhere is so finely expressed a synthesis of the Upanishadic thought available but in Kabir.
The problem with the Gita is not the Gita per se, but its unthinking use as an icon for Hindutva goals. Like Varun’s for instance. I also see Vivekananda being used as a symbol of Hindu nationalism and I am sure that he would be turning in his grave restless.
And I presume that but few of the so called Hindutvites would have undertaken even a simple study of the Gita or Vivekananda to see what they have to say.
And you are right again, with all the monuments named after Nehru and Gandhi there is a distinct imbalance.
Given all that it is good to ponder over why Hindutva as an agenda and as an identity point for the BJP is a grand failure. And why it should be an agenda in these times. As to why it should not be given up?
Looking at the facts tells us that but for Gujarat, nowhere has the magic of Hindutva worked. And even in Gujarat, Hindutva would have failed but for the government’s performance.
It is clear that as long as there is a democratic process in this country the chances of winning on a purely religion based plank is going to fail.
So why does not the BJP radically and publically drop and divorce active Hindutva from its thought stream and politics. Varun’s speech for instance seems roundly condenmed even in LKAdvani’s forum, where many claim he has been a major liability to the BJP in this election. On the other hand Modi has a better appreciation of the matter and seems to have restrained himself, at least in the national media.
What the BJP has to understand is that there is a group of people who are in empathy with its ideas and goals for good governance, and to that crowd, the ideas of Hindutva look not only jaded but also dangerous, to use a more extreme view, dangerously stupid.
The BJP should also understand that these ideas while they were in fashion in the 80’s and 90’s are considered silly these days. I am sure that the youth of this country whose needs for success are more urgent than of any previous generation and who have moved from the cities and found that the old divisions of their villages do not matter anymore would find it difficult, nay would be diffident about association with such ideologies. You know like having to tolerate a poor relative in august company. And as Indian society modernises and urbanisation continues, the attraction of a religio-political line is bound to come down.
And unless there is a distinct threat say to the nation or its culture these ideas are never going to hold sway again. The Congress embraced socialism in its hey day but dropped it as soon as it became unviable. The new ideas of inclusiveness do stem from older socialist ideas but are not termed as such.
The dropping of an intrinsic agenda by a political party is not new. The DMK which wanted South India to secede from the Indian Union initially dropped its demand and has only prospered without which they would ultimately have been dismissed as cranks or would be coined a terrorist force. The BJP can take faith that the dropping of the Hindutva agenda will bring it more votes and more respectability in a society going increasingly modern and well connected.
It is clear that the BJP needs to find a new idiom in its interface with the Indian people.
If you have a problem with crafty people like Varun Gandhi’s use and abuse of symbolism in Hindu Society in what an oath on the Gita means - speak to that, but unless and until you are a scholar who has devoted at least a big chunk of your time to the study and understanding of a belief system evolved over centuries - it is a little bit disingenuous to present yourself as an authority.
Also, ‘Hindutva’ in is simplest sense means ‘being a Hindu’, like ‘Naritva’ means being a woman or womanhood. In an essentially individualistic belief system where freedom of thought, inquiry and exploration of internal self is valued, it would be a herculean task to define what ‘Being a Hindu’ means. But human beings are anchored in group identities, of like spiritual thought, like economic or political thought, like lifestyles, like customs, like world view etc. or any combination of these and other characteristics, and ‘Hindutva’, to my understanding, is an attempt to encapsulate the thought evolved over centuries in easily graspable terms. I believe there is a term going around called ‘Hindutvavadi’ - I am just happy being a Hindu and a human being.
However, in a socio-political context which has strongly encouraged group identities along religious lines in how society and her laws continue to be constituted, and rewards the strongest religious identities with distinction not available to others - thanks to Pandit Nehru - how do you blame anybody from seeking a strong religious identity.
The standard reply is minority protection. Quite frankly, none of what goes on in India in this regard has anything to do with minority, majority - there are many minorities far greatly outnumbered than ‘The Minority Community’, so to say, whose voice has no weight in the system even when the very purpose of minority rights in a democratic system borne out of the will of the majority (electoral majority - I must clarify before you label me fascist or something) is supposed to provide safeguards so that the outnumbered are not deprived of the rights available to other groups - this is how it is anywhere in the world where the claim is that the Government is for All.
You tell me, in all honesty, can you say this is how it is India? The preference for a specific religious identity is clear when a government all concerned about the rights and protection of the minority all over India, drives its decisions in Kashmir by the will of the majority, why? because it is the will of the majority of a specific religious persuasion - How does that work in this equation of secular and democracy - ‘embodiment of ALL religions’ and ’safeguards for protecting minority/ies - by definition an outnumbered groups in a given demographic context.’
Let us put Kashmir aside for a minute, have you even heard any reference to religious and linguistic minoritIES recognized in the Constitution or is it all about the minority community in any discussion. Who in this context is The Minority, and when a Government makes governance all about ‘The Minority’ concerns, what would you call in - secular? or governance for one special interest.
With regard to your understanding of ‘Hindutva’ it is what you have attributed to it by gauging from the words and actions of some that do not apply to others, and berating characterizations in the atmosphere from the ’secular’ - and I use that term loosely - polity. Let me know when you have ever heard any calm and respectful discussion in the public realm to engage people who believe in it to understand what it really means to them. So how can you judge?
Having a community identity is not ‘being communal’. What is communal is to talk about ‘embodiment of All religions’ and then rule for one - not all of the membership of the ‘one’ either - women are excluded.
What BJP started out to do with Hindutva was call the bluff of the farce that has gone on under the banner of the Indian brand of secularism, getting entangled in some very distasteful stuff in the process, in my opinion.
The fact of the matter is to many BJP supporters - Hindutva is important, for a sense of identity and for the above reasons. Whether they are able to reflect and come to a consensus in what it means to them in values, words, and actions and whether it can be truly respectful of all communities and Indians as part of good governance might make the difference. If it is about blanket animosity towards muslims, and christians, and whatever other minority that might be perceived as a threat - it could be game over.
RA
you’ll like this article..
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1242212406809&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
“another thing..its folly to expect the BJP to always behave in a moral manner (not caring about potential votes), whilst the UPA commits hateful things under the sun. Black and White morality is only an illusion. Survival and prosparity dwells in the gray. Ultimately it comes down to the lesser of two evils.”
Siddharth:
If UPA is your role model for how BJP must conduct it self such that anything, even sacrificing the nationalist philosophy, goes for garnering votes, what is the credibility when you accuse Congress of vote bank politics - who will believe you?
It is a rock and a hard place, not black and white, and it does not help garner votes - you lose on both accounts - Maharashtrians to MNS and North Indians to Congress, because the devious tricksters of the Congress have their false act of inclusion down. You can’t expose that if you take your cues from them in how to conduct yourself.
RA
hey…where did you get the idea that i take my lessons in morality from the UPA..
i think you didn’t understand..i really thought that you were an intelligent person..please read my comment again…
politics IS about shades of gray…especially in India….any political alliance, apart form the UPA would have to strengthen its foundations first…the key word is TIME…5 or 6 years is too short a duration to undo the wrongs accrued in 60 years….
BTW what do you think about the artcle?
Nothing grey about standing on the sidelines in the face of blatant hypocracy on part of Deshmukh, for fear of upsetting a rabidly regionalistic ally while calling oneself a Nationalist party.
I quote you:
“another thing..its folly to expect the BJP to always behave in a moral manner (not caring about potential votes), whilst the UPA commits hateful things under the sun.”
My understanding of that statement: They do it so it is OK for us.
If I misunderstood - I apologize.
Which article?
RA
this artcile was in the Jerusalem post
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1242212406809&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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