Humble India Prefers Humble people
by Sudipto Das
Since last week there has been several analysis of the disappointing performance of BJP in 2009 election. Most analyses do harp on a few common points like (1) the excessive use in BJP campaigns of the strong vs. weak PM issue which seemed to have reached the level of personal attacks on a person who is perceived as Mr Good by ‘Aam Aadmi’ (2) lack of youth power which was exploited very rightfully by Congress through Rahul & Priyanka Gandhi (3) total failure in creating an all inclusive and the easily-understood so called ’secular’ image among all sections (4) total failure in retaining the educated middle class people who were instrumental in bringing BJP at the helm of power a decade back (5) total failure to utilize the media in its favour (6) the negativity of the entire episode of Varun Gandhi’s speech and the recent cultural policing by some right wing elements perceived to be affiliated to BJP and (7) the internal feud within BJP.
There should be several other reasons off course. But no one is speaking of one aspect which I feel played a major role in the declining vote share of BJP.
India and Indian culture has a lot of respect and regard for humility. Perhaps one of the most distinguishing and differentiating factors that has become identification for Indians since ages is humility. Indians have been always seen as very modest people. Aggression was never a part of the character for most Indians.
History has more regards for a humble and benign Asoka than anyone else. The next personality who comes close to the reputation and stature of Asoka’s is perhaps Akbar, again a much more benign and humble personality than most other rulers in recent times. Gandhi’s more than a life image and popularity is also perhaps due to the fact that he was seen more as a benign seer than an aggressive politician. It’s not that Tagore was a seer in reality, but the image that remained in most of the Indians’ mind is that of a bearded sage that suits the persona of a Gurudev. People tend not to see at all the aggressive side of Tagore.
With the exception of perhaps Guru Govind Singh, most of the personalities who have attained a more than life stature in India in all ages starting from Buddha till Gandhi have been - or at least perceived to be - devoid of any aggression. That’s not just a coincidence. I feel that’s a part of our culture and we’ve to respect that.
The very fact that the entire campaigning of BJP was based on the idea of a strong leader against a ‘weak’ Manmohan Singh didn’t go well with the Indians who always prefer soft and humble people. Pointing out blatantly over and over that Manmohan Singh is weak did make the Indians think about the point. At one side they have a soft spoken person who never showed aggression in any form and on the other side there’s someone strong and aggressive. I think the Indians did exactly what they have been doing for ever - prefer a soft person. It’s a common perception that soft people are also very humble. Aggression is always associated with adamance and lack of humility. That’s why they felt very comfortable with Manmohan Singh.
Not only did Advani and Modi’s image speak of aggression, but in general the BJP leaders are perceived to be less polite when they speak. This was very apparent in many of the debates in media. Might be they were always asked uncomfortable questions by a biased media, still their body language and the message couldn’t be seen as very humble or polite. Compared to that Rahul Gandhi’s master strokes of humility, or at least the publicised or orchestrated forms of humility, did gel very well with the culture of India. It’s interesting to see that even the youth of India prefers humility. It’s another story that the so called humility that has impressed the Indians can also be totally a fake.
BJP should take this lesson very seriously. It can be argued that in nineties the rise of BJP was also based on an aggressive Hindutva agenda. But that was more of a cultural nationalism rather than just aggression. Also at the centre was the benign Atal Behari Vajpayee. This time neither is any nationalism nor a benign face. So it’s time to go back to the drawing board to chalk out the plans for creating a soft and humble image of BJP.
I think that’s how the corporate world also works. An aggressive person may rise to the top, but a popular manager is he who is soft and humble. It’s true that at times you do need a strong and decisive person with lot of aggression, but then it’s very unlikely that he or she would be popular.
Democracy might not guarantee the best - but then that’s the way it is. A party or a leader has to be popular and if that requires taking a particular stand, that’s what any they should do to get to power.
Once in power there are many ways to be aggressive, but off course not in front of camera!!
Sudipto blogs at http://sudiptounplugged.blogspot.com/
Comments
85 Responses to “Humble India Prefers Humble people”
“Once in power there are many ways to be aggressive, but off course not in front of camera!!”
Does the author think the ideas posted and expressed, discussed and advocated in official posts, not just comments by bloggers, on this forum are not in the public domain, and hidden behind some smoke screen in some back room deal that no will figure out what is a front and what is reality.
What would be the thrust of the ‘aggressive’ once in power that ‘humility’ in front of the camera is supposed to hide?
This forum started out and is stated to be “a subset of the educated civil society that is BJP-leaning, and willing to be vocal about it. We are not part of the BJP. We also do not agree with everything the BJP says or does. It is our belief that at this point of time the BJP is the better alternative.”
It would be nice to know in categorical terms what it is that FOBJP does not agree with in what BJP says or does, and what the content of ‘Good Governance’is from the perspective of its founders because from any number of official articles posted on this forum it is not at all clear what this forum is really about.
If the idea is to provide room for a lot of cyber rattling and stand for nothing except for fierce advocacy for whatever the heck it takes for a Party (that FOBJP is not supposed to be in agreement with on everything) to win - it is dirty politics as usual, typical of the Indian scene.
Nothing new or refreshing about it - it breeds the cynicism that leads to voter apathy, which is what this group is said to have aimed to counter.
Very disappointing.
Seriously BJP is better served without friends like Sudipto.I would ignore this post as a yet another lame exercise in arm chair punditry .
Aah, the benefits of hindsight! Yes some of the factors you mentioned might have had an impact specially the inclusiveness factor. Its a bitter pill to swallow but yes we haven’t had the moderating influence of Atalji who won elections not on jingoistic campaigns but providing credible center-right alternatives. Excellent initiatives on Economic and infrastructure fronts for a first time government. But these got obliterated in other murky issues blown up by a brazenly partisan media.
Dont dismiss this article!
Yes, everyone loves a firm person, but people hesitate when someone is loud or aggressive. Good human being, great fighter, but Loud, shrill: Sushma Swaraj. Good human being but unnecessarily agressive: Advani. Good human being, good leader, too agressive: Modi. See the history of the BJP: all the loud ones like Uma Bharathi, Govindacharya etc have fallen on the way-side.
In this world of form vs content, it is form that wins. People are satisfied if you APPEAR soft. Even if you are ACTUALLY a disaster. A wimp (and often rude) person like Manmohan Singh gets applauded.
The BJP always stood for real content over pretentious form. It is high time they realised that form is also important.
The BJP should look for a firm but gentle person: a Vajpayee.
Very good comments from Mr. Sudipto Das. This is the reason for the BJP defeat
i cant be humble after reading this - this is utter crap. India esp Young India does not want a humble PM against Pak and terrorism it wants a string and aggressive PM. This is an useless exercise.
The strong versus weak PM debate was not about physical strength,agression or humble behaviour. Mr Advani consistently pointed out throughout his campaign that it was about having an effective person holding the PM’s position. Manmohan Singh was a PM controlled by Sonia Gandhi and will remain a PM until Sonia wants. The election results mean nothing in his appointment. Anybody associated with politics will agree that nobody can move a finger in the congress without the Gandhi’s wishes.
This love for humble people is out of slave mentality of Hindus. Leaders are not Diplomats,why do we have Prime Minister then.The same job could be done by some Bureaucrat. Why shouldn’t be Manmohan Singh attacked when he is silently enjoying all fruits of Powers and letting people die in blasts.
Indian public has really funny slave mentality. There were serial Blasts happening. Narendra Modi ji got all of them Caught after Ahemdabad Blast in 2008. Congress was sleeping on it.Now the weekends have became peaceful and without blasts, but people are more angry and cynical about Modi and BJP rather than Congress. SO this proves the real slave mentality of people which I believe Congress handles very well. BJP has to learn from Congress.
Remember an Honest person will be a little bit agressive while a corrupt and greedy will be not.
Sorry friends, I cant show humility to enemies of our country for winning elections.
There has to be balance between agressive and soft stand and Advani ji has it in him.
There cant be soft stand on terror, or hunger or lowest human development index or corruption.
There can be soft stand when sending a message to people of India to go out and vote.. Does any of these so called soft and honest netas of congress or any other party appeal to the sentiments of people like Advani ji?
Sudipto, does Mamta Banerji show any humility when she speaks or work for WB? Its all opportunism and nasty vote bank politics to win over people. If the reverse does not allow BJP to win let that be.. People like you know who works in the interest of country and who work to exploit the poverty by having divisice economic policies.. Your word cant be taken for granted when our country saw series of blasts in recent past. Your policies cant be taken for granted when we see a confused economy.. no senior leader of congress is able to explain what does it mean when we have a less than 1% inflation and 13% inflation. Can you explain such things? Its better to be soft when one does not have answers for serious questions facing our country. Probably thats precisly why MMS or Rahul have to stay quite.
And also pls dont forget the biggest of big scams in the history of Indian democracy has happenned during the so called softer leadership, made to be soft invetigation agency etc..
BJP stands for agression in mind but soft at heart. That works and it will work.. just wait and wathc. Dont just get carried away by the rosy pictures.
Fully agree with True friend:
This love for Humble and Gentel people transforms itself to “Chalta hai” attitude,corruption,inefficiency etc. Now people will see how humble Congress is after getting so many seats. Congress has this skill of knowing the blood in Indian people’s veins.
Vajpayee was very humble still he lost. At least if Modi/Advani pair is agressive they have given Good Governance in Gujrat/M.P/Chattisgarh and Rajasthan also though Vasundhra lost.
The indecent BJP fixed Bihar which Rahul’s family has destroyed for last 50 years.
This love for humble people can be explained by following paragraph:
“Advani ji was a little foolish to waste his life with a party like BJP. He is in Politics since 1952 and he could have become everything other than the Prime Minister, if he has joined Congress or may be even that just have a look at Manmohan Singh.
Advani ji didn’t realized that those who have silently tolerated Slavery of foreign rulers for thousand years will not rise from their slumber by his idealistic talks/vision/honesty/integrity/good work etc. In fact such a community will be deeply cynical of anybody freeing them from their slavery and will try to find faults in a person who is procaliming to be honest or who tries to practice values and display honesty and integrity. You have to get hold of this slavery tissue and manipulate it rather than asking people to get rid of it.Any way Advani ji has sufficient time to think now and may be in his next Birth he should try to fix his mistake by joining Congress.Losss is cruel and Victory is sweat and Advani ji is not new to it only issue is that this was his last chance.”
@ V Rao- Good Human Being ??? Modi ?????
BJP failed to connect by Sandhya Jain - Excellent analysis.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/178617/BJP-failed-to-connect.html
I think Sudipto Das is confusing aggression/ humility with presentation. BJP leaders and spoke persons need a little tutoring in presentation skills as with TV the body language shows through.
@ SJ - Any doubt?
Always assume innocense until proven otherwise.
@ Canadian Desi
hmmmm, so ajmal kasab, osama bin laden, dawood ibrahim, laloo yadav (for corruption), are all innocent, right?? dont know if any of them have been PROVED guilty by any court..
cheers..
If two of the senior most leaders make comments like - “People judge my performance based on their expectations like Sachin Tendulkar” and “Congress was benefitted ‘cos of lefts blackmail”. It shows a complete denial of the acceptance of the hard facts that are evident. Forget everything - BJP is the only national party loosing vote share consistently in last 10 years and if the senior most leaders are busy making arrogant comments like this, I guess (with the benefit of hindsight) voters are smart enough to reject (or atleast not accept) these people as their leaders.
I am seriously coming to a conclusion (though with a great disappointment) that BJP has no future, atleast if it continues being what it is… I guess they are really busy to retest the 1984 low of 2. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but really can’t see why that should happen!!!
Guys, thanks for so many comments. I think I’ve been misunderstood to some extent. My point was that history tells how Indians should be managed. There’s the fundamentals of Sam-Daam-Dand-Bhed as propounded by the greatest manager and politician of all ages - Krishna - and used so well by people like Asoka, Akbar and very recently Gandhi. There’s a way Indians behave and there’s a way they should be managed. Indians didn’t respond to the violent methods of Subhas Bose in the same way they did for the Gandhian way. At the end of the way BJP has to do things that’s right - it’s only the outward packaging and management tactics that can be changed. Again, these are my views and I appreciate the counter views and arguments.
BTW, someone mentioned about Mamta. Yes, people don’t like her at all for all the shouts and fights she does. This time people just chose a better devil - and ask any Bengali, and specially from Soth Calcutta who are the victims of most of her ‘rasta-roko’ - and he/she will clarify this.
“I am seriously coming to a conclusion (though with a great disappointment) that BJP has no future, atleast if it continues being what it is… I guess they are really busy to retest the 1984 low of 2. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but really can’t see why that should happen!!!”
Coming to the same conclusions myself..
It seems that this forum is now being used to vent the frustations of some of the FOBJP.
In 1999, Congress had also won only 110 seats, but they came back in 2004.
BJP can also bounce back. Just wait and see the performance or non-performance of the UPA (Congress).
The very same media which was all gung-ho about the “Young politicians” of the has already started questioning their capabilities.
The BJP should target to get the middle class back in its favour by continuing to raise the issue of price rise.
The BJP should also target the voter of ages between 18-25 and also those who will be 18 by the time the next elections come. These voters are naive and vulnerable and even though the have a right to vote, issues like price rise are not of much importance to them as they are dependent on their parents.
And, being the only non-family oriented political party in the country, they should put their house in order.
Sudipto It’s me who mentioned about Mamta and her soft stand .. shame on the sense of democracy prevailing in the mind of leaders who have been happily offered the important portfolis like railway ministry..
If Mamta thinks she does not have to show humility and does not even want to understand basics of simple economics(forget about Behavioral economics), want to keep the state of WB in the same old state of misery, she still finds the chance of taking an important portfolio. Is that what you meant by humble leadership of congress…
Boss I dont need to ask the south or north calcutta people what Mamta or Prakash Karat or any other politician is. I am asking everyone to figure out - if congres can stoop down so low and compromise hard with the state of economy of the nation by playing luka chupi game with Lalu and Mamta, where is the country heading ?
And you call it humble and cool politics… yes its cool nasty anti nation politics, but sorry there is no humility left in it..and in no way BJP will allow the party to compromise with the security, sovereignity , peace of the nation.
Nasty.. dirty politics of the current ruling party… BJP friends please avoid these and we can still see a better prospect for the country.
one Funny thing guys…
Rahul Gandhi with very soft voice and humility said in the press conference - I … I … I .. know Nitish .. Nitish.. for e.g.. has done a great job for Bihar..
Was he thinking whether to say or not or he did not have any other choice but propose Nitish and shun own ally(previous Railway minister.. another peacemaker and honest guy before Mamta was honestly approached this year).. What a cool and soft voice of Rahul..
Some friends of congress were confused as to how to react to Rahul’s comments and now some friends are saying wah.. Rahul has own us elections..
Very very soft… I hate this pretention
So because we called MMS weak the people decided to punish us and we lost the election!! Bakwas!!
@SJ
hmmmm, so ajmal kasab, osama bin laden, dawood ibrahim, laloo yadav (for corruption), are all innocent, right?? dont know if any of them have been PROVED guilty by any court..
Ajmal Kasab , Osama bin Laden , Dawood Ibrahim -> We dont need to prove anything in our courts. These people already have nterpol red corner notices. Red Corner notices are not given to Freedon Fighters in Any country. SO these Shit holes are bad
laloo yadav is definitely innocent alas his own state people say otherwise. They say that he used to treat his IPS officers like his servant asking them to buy cigarettes for him. And animal husbandry scam was shown to light very well in the same sickular media of india long time back.
Modi Rocks. His three phase voltage supply does not distinguish religion. He appeases nobody.
We want only such able administrators…and iof somebodu touches innocent hindus, lo behold and let them remember , there is a limit to Hindu patience.
Well said. If there is communal harmony prevailing in any state now that must be beacuse its a non congress / non-congress ally state.
Sudipto, one more very hard politics (soft in your way may be)… please let us know how hard or how soft is congress on Naxalites? Congress is definitely very soft even after the most respected personnel providing Natioanl security died in bullet firing in 26/11. Only solution.. only God can help this country.. Because rural vote bank is anyway captured for another so many years by the superb sale offer - price protection.. salam to these hypocrats of economic reforms who adapt inefficient means to control economy and the most effective way to be in power.
Why dont congress aaply rent control in cities? Most of the migrants will go back to thir own states..
We have done everything honestly for Good Governance,in fact BJP taught what good Governance is from the days of Klayan Singh in U.P. We now have to do only One thing Attack the Media Hard.
What is more hurting is why does the BJP appears so weak before the Media. They seem to behave like a rejected lover trying hard to woo his beloved once more and his beloved is thinking of only betraying and humiliating him.
Why a strong party like BJP with Government in so many states humiliate and attack Media when smaller parties like Samajwadi party and RJD can take a hard stance against Media.
BJP Leaders should be given some crash courses by Professor Amar Singh. The way he is aatacking Barkha Dutt and Veer Sanghvi is really Music to ears. I wish our leaders can do that. We have to finish the credibility of Media. All 60 years of dirty politics will become clear before the public and in particular of last 8 years.
We as Friends of BJP should be open minded and should not ignore any comments or criticism given in the article. We should give a thought to the views given in a POSITIVE way and extract what is good out of it.
The writer has cited a reason for the defeat of BJP. He has raised atleast a question - “Why our leaders could not become as humble as Rahul Gandhi?” If it is the actual situation, we should take lessens ahead.
@ Badrinarayanan Srinivasan
So its because of interpol that you are convinced about dawood, osama et al.. otherwise you were confused about their activities eh??? .. my friend, we will be a doomed society if we have to entirely depend on law enforcing agencies and judiciary to tell us what is right and what is wrong.. hve u heard something about a certain little thing called CONSCIENCE???
and what are you trying to say.. 3 phase voltage supply is greater than 2000+ lives?? in that case lets give a chance to all murderers and rapists, why just modi… let them make roads and buildings and we will forgive all their crimes… kasab and dawood will be too happy to oblige i guess.. cheers
I think current thinking ing BJP is relegated to following - “We don’t think we are doing anything wrong, its a matter of time that people will realize their folly (by some magic) and when they’d, they’d vote us to power, till then we will continue doing what we are doing….(next time they’d be voted to power ‘cos mamata and DMK or perhaps even NCP blackmailed them.. How very convenient..)”
I fail to understand how even God could help this…..
I personally feel that the points raised in this article are absolutely correct. BJP need a benign and humble face as leader and not quarreling, lawyer type of leaders.
But I don’t agree that week PM vs strong leader was a wrong debate. MMS was and is a week PM and nobody can deny that. I think the problem was of credibility. Congress demolished Advani’s strong leader claim like any thing using Jinnah, Kandhar and Babri Masjid. For a BJP voter these things didn’t matter but for fence sitters they really made the difference.
Another thing that lost the BJP election is their behavior as principal opposition party. If performance of UPA govt was pathetic, the performance of BJP as opposition was even more abysmal. For 5 years, everybody saw that they didn’t do any meaningful business as opposition. Suddenly at the time of election, even if they raise valid issues, who is going to trust them that these are not mere election gimmicks. Winning the trust of people is the most important and most difficult part in public life.
No success comes without hard work. The phenomenal rise of BJP in 90s with some stroke of luck which propelled BJP to power in 1998-2004 time frame has made BJP forget this basic tenet. With such success, there are lots of arm chair leaders decorating the BJP who are driven only by their own personal ambitions. No top leader is showing any inclination to go to grass root level to strengthen organization with full dedication and without any selfish motive.
Establishing their credibility with their action without wavering from their basic ideology (not of demolition of Babri Masjid type) is the way to go. Unless BJP earns the trust of common man through its actions, nothing is going to change and I don’t see that happening at all.
The logic is not entirely wrong. We Indians or shall I say Hindus are by nature too humble, non aggressive. We tend to forget wrongs done to us also very easily. We hate those hate speeches given by Varun but when same are given against hindus by muslim leaders, we are not that much against it.
Friends of BJP is fast losing it’s credibility.
Firstly, it is NO friend of BJP since it keeps printing anti-BJP articles that come across as no different than those appearing within the English media in India.
Sudipto Das, Swapan Dasgupta and company seem to come across as Congress implants in disguise on this forum.
Another thing, all the hype around Friends of BJP meetings in the big cities such as Mumbai & New Delhi did not help BJP at all. NOT AT ALL!!!
Friends of BJP is fast losing it’s credibility.
Firstly, it is NO friend of BJP since it keeps printing anti-BJP articles that come across as no different than those appearing within the English media in India.
Sudipto Das, Swapan Dasgupta and company seem to come across as Congress implants in disguise on this forum..
Another thing, all the hype around Friends of BJP meetings in the big cities such as Mumbai & New Delhi did not help BJP at all. NOT AT ALL!!!
@ New Yorker - You want sycophants for bjp, a la congress.. dont you..
Who is this badri? I think if he is so concerned about Gujarath riots and if he thinks Modi is same as Dawood or Osama, he should live in a Muslim dominated locality or in Kashmir. It is very easy to talk about something when you are not affected. Ofcourse Gujarath riots should not have happenned - but remember even hindus died in the riots. None of the riots in this country were started by hindus. BJP has lost because most of the hindus think like badri and all the minorities follow their fatwas. Do you ever think why a muslim or christian dominated does not have a hindu MP or MLA. Look at Kerala or Hyderabad.
Hey..This Friends of BJP is publishing/digging all this while for past 15 days . Is it time that it stops mourning and take real concrete steps to win election 2014 . I think enough has been analysed , Is it time for some action…
Indian public has really funny slave mentality. There were serial Blasts happening. Narendra Modi ji got all of them Caught after Ahemdabad Blast in 2008. Congress was sleeping on it.Now the weekends have became peaceful and without blasts, but people are more angry and cynical about Modi and BJP rather than Congress. SO this proves the real slave mentality of people which I believe Congress handles very well. BJP has to learn from Congress.
ALREADY BJP HAS A HANDFUL OF ISSUES FOR UPCOMING ELECTIONS IF THEY CAN MAKE PROPER NOISE!!
-WHY is BJP silent on :
1) The Vienna and Punjab violence.Shouldn’t BJP help its ally Akali Dal which is being targeted by media and congress ? BJP should somehow point out the commonality in the Congress and Vienna/Punjab violence without naming any person in particular.The commonality link is ITALY.
-I see no bjp members on this issue in the TV.WHY?
2)BJP should do some social service in Jammu Station by distributing foods, water and toileterries to the stranded passengers there.
3) Also BJP should highlight the failure of Chandigarh police and Haryana police in preventing the spread of violence at these places, although anticipated.
4)Also J&K administration should be grilled for failing to provide security, fooding and lodging support to the passengers in the station.
5)What is central government headed by Congress doing nothing in the Alia Thunder-storm in West Bengal?
6)Compare the casualities in WB calamity and Punjab violence.
7)Should Punjab police have opened fire on its own people? and gotten some of its own people killed?
IF BJP KEEPS SILENCE ON THESE, IT WILL SOON CEASE TO EXIST IN PEOPLES’ MINDS AND LOOSE ITS CREDIBILITY.
ALREADY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TOWARDS CONGRESS FOR A SOLUTION TO ALL THESE.
@ Arvind
“even hindus died in riots”- is that supposed to make things better??
“hindus never started riots”- whoever starts it, its the duty of the govt to stop it and save lives..
“Do you ever think why a muslim or christian dominated does not have a hindu MP or MLA. Look at Kerala or Hyderabad.”- who cares, i have a mind of my own, if they all jump in a lake may be you would be tempted to copy them.. I wont..
whether u like it or not, whichever way you define a terrorist, modi fits that definition perfectly.. but bjp wallas wont just accept, cos thats the bjp style of sycophancy
@ randheer..
kudos to modi if he really caught the bomb blasters.. now if he has the guts, let him catch the rioters too (of gujarat 2002 fame)… then we will talk about slave mentality..
Counterpoint:
Hi Sudipto, I don’t agree on various points you have suggested. I appreciate your ideas and thoughts but cannot agree to it and hope BJP leaders are not taking you advice.
I am putting my various counterpoints to your suggestions.
First I will like to put a line of Bankim Chandra Chatterjee “Tumi Adhom hoile, Ami uttam hoibo na keno.”: If you are inferior, why shouldn’t I be superior.
1. BJP apes Congress fails: I firmly believe this if we start aping congress we will fail, I think there is a strong tendency of some people to push BJP as congress’s B-Team, which will be disastrous for the party.
a. You said BJP is aggressive and Congress is not: This we have to market right or make people understand that BJP is aggressively nationalist, it’s Pro-India as it believes in appeasement of none and justice and development to all. We can be pro-Hindu, remember is we cannot be pro to 85% of population we cannot do good to 15% anyway, our pro-Hindu should be attributed to anti-minority. These have to be clearly stated but we don’t need to be humble like congress that with their humbleness has not done much progress in India for last 60 years.
2. Ashoka was humble : Ashoka was a good king who delivered justice, but giving justice can be done as a strong leader and no-where in history its written Ashoka was humble.
3. Akbar was humble: I still have no idea how the Mughal emperor humbleness was perceived by the writer. Again, Akbar was a very pragmatic king who understood that if he keeps fighting with Rajputs he will just drain his coffers and never cement his rule in India. So he very cleverly created a joint-venture between Rajputs and Mughals. When this delicate balance was broken by Aurangzeb, we all know what happened. Please don’t tell him humble. Yes, he was sure a great pragmatic king who broke lots of barriers in his time and very aggressive.
4. Gandhi : Gandhi was humble or was perceived humble. But we all do selective study of history. As a keen student of history I beg to differ with the writer that Gandhi was responsible solely for our freedom. The last struggle which Gandhi did was Quit India in 1942 (this was suggested by Subhas Bose in 1939, but he was booted out of congress then), the quit India was completely and successfully suppressed by British and hence in 1946 there was no reason for British to leave us unless they themselves did not wanted to rule India. The impending reasons were the problems created by Red fort trial of INA officers. Unfortunately our secular government and media wants all of us to think it was one person who gave us freedom and wants us to have only selective memory of our history.
No doubts India gave us many aggressive leaders who laid their life but we still make wrong people our hero.
We need aggressively fight corruption, infant mortality, illiteracy, poverty etc. but maybe we are too humble to fight these and hence after 62 years of independence we still have these impending issues.
MMS may be a humble person, but what’s use of such person if he cannot control his cabinet members, he cannot give us a corrupt free government. MMS/Congress may have won but these do not elevate their shortcomings.
My above counterpoint does not mean we/BJP did everything right in this election, but we did quite a few things right else we would not have won 160 seats. We should not get bogged down in analysis paralysis rather start working for our short coming i.e. younger leadership, clarity in ideas, proper communication to grass root levels, have all-India presence, win the lost states etc.
Lets BJP be ANTI-CONGRESS in ideas not CONGRESS-B team.
Regards,
S.Chatterjee
@Arvind
This is badri here living in chennai and supporting BJP from the day i got my first franchise.
BJP state general Secretary H.Raja Stays in my house whenever he Visits Chennai.
Who is arvind? And does he read english properly and understand that?
I wrote against @SJ saying Modi gives good goivernance and does not bother to do minority appeasement. @Sj was equating modi to the likes of Osama , Dawood and Kasab.
I dont support minority anbd mind you when you say BJP lost because of people like me.
I do more than just wrinting in this website.
I attend BJP meets and am a volunteer in the party to do all grass root works.
I get the support of friends and other party workers and spread the word in bicycles and door-2-door canvassing.
@Arvind, maybe at maximum you vote for BJP yeah?
At ward level my Father is the President of BJP in Alandur constituency and we have consistently made inroads in our constituency with BJP manifesto and making people understand the merits of BJP
I worked for LGanesan’s candidature this time, though he did not win.
I am not an armchair general of this party.
@sj
“So its because of interpol that you are convinced about dawood, osama et al.. otherwise you were confused about their activities eh??? .. my friend, we will be a doomed society if we have to entirely depend on law enforcing agencies and judiciary to tell us what is right and what is wrong.. hve u heard something about a certain little thing called CONSCIENCE???”
Yes and i have it and i know the same.
and what are you trying to say.. 3 phase voltage supply is greater than 2000+ lives??
Let us take the same analogy. Lot os lives were lost by the Nazi hitler. But even today Germany sincerely tries every old Nazi criminal it can lay its hands on. Why not leave them after all is one life mnore than all the lives lost? NO right?
Similarly, please understand what i said. When modi gives developmental agenda to the state he gives it to all. His schemes are not distingushing the communities living in gujarat. He lives and works for the development of Swarnim Gujarat.
“in that case lets give a chance to all murderers and rapists, why just modi… ”
You are already giving it. remember Kasab.you are giving him special treatment. First he wanted urdu affidavit. Then he said juvenile. He is dragging….while the people who lost policemen and public are still watching inthis country….minority appeasement is what is going on. Or either the PM has no spine. Look at Israel. It went inside palestine against Hizbollah and Hamas for a single Israeli soldier and got back his corpse.Learn from that.
“let them make roads and buildings and we will forgive all their crimes…”
Let them first come to public service , be non corrupt and do some basic non-madrass non allah stuff. Maybe let them not lay roads. Let them even tally a 12th standard class problems or some science stuff. We can think of letting them pout roads etc. Maybe we will not be given such levbel of consideration in saudi…right?
” kasab and dawood will be too happy to oblige i guess..”
They wont be . They would only want to kill more hindus….they will only want to blast more cities…
” cheers ”
what for cheers?
by the way what does SJ mean? Just thinking if you are any minority person hiding behind initials…
Vande Mataram
SJ, Hope you and youyr friends[ who share similar feelings, have watched the Newshour debate on TimesNow yesterday.
I am sure if you have watched the discussion, you would have already got the message. Mumbai or India has not forgotten the deadly incident of 26/11. Nothing.. virtually bothing has been done by the ruling partry then and now to secure the lives of aam admi.
When the nation stands witness to all those ghastly attacks on us .. I repeat us (thats every single Indian .. If he/she feels that he/she is a part of the nation and should/must contribute to the nation building ), noone can be pardoned.
God permit BJP come to power onece again. The cruel minds working hard to shatter the dreams of our country will be severely punished.
When you say aam admi - it includes us as well.
Can you or anyone from congress define the meaning of aam admi in this country?
We collectively question the swift selection of words by congress party to confuse the country for 60 long years.. Aam admi, communal, secular, youth party.. can one of these words be described in right perspective and is there a metrics followed to justify the usage of those.
Uselss Manish Towari was fumbling in yesterday;s discussion. My heart broke again and again when I saw yesterday the replay of reaction of people on 26/11.
@ Badrinarayanan Srinivasan
“Let us take the same analogy. Lot os lives were lost by the Nazi hitler. But even today Germany sincerely tries every old Nazi criminal it can lay its hands on. Why not leave them after all is one life mnore than all the lives lost? NO right?”
a criminal is a criminal.. howmuchever he tries to change his color, that too when the criminal relates to something as heinous as murder, he should not be forgiven… all this development shevelpment is being used just as an excuse.. i do not support minority appeasement, nor do i support majority appeasement, hope you understand..
“Similarly, please understand what i said. When modi gives developmental agenda to the state he gives it to all. His schemes are not distingushing the communities living in gujarat. He lives and works for the development of Swarnim Gujarat.”
take the overall picture dude, he was responsible for the murder of 2000+ people.. end of story.. him not distinguishing for development does not justify him murdering 2000+ innocent INDIANS..
may be u will support pardoning dawood and kasab if they took develpmental activities (they wont i know, this is a hypothesis).. but even then i will NOT SUPPORT.. because.. same logic.. a murderer is a murderer… i dont change my logic depending on the persons religion…
“by the way what does SJ mean? Just thinking if you are any minority person hiding behind initials…”
SJ stands for Suresh Joshi.. by the way does it make any difference to our debate if it was Salim Javed, Samuel Joseph or Stupid Joker !!!
CHEERS (may there be some cheer in your hatered filled life..
)
@ True friend of BJP
Please read my above comments.. I have the same things to say to you.. a murderer is a murdrer.. end of story.. whether he belongs to this or that religion, language, country, caste, does not matter.. murder is a crime against humanity.. period..
I am not a supporter of any party.. am a supporter of India, hope that clarifies..
Since 1992 after the unfortunate demolition of Babri masjid,it has became a norm that Muslims will do tactical voting and will vote in favour of anybody who is going to defeat BJP.This is more prominent in case of States like Uttar Pradesh. This tactical voting has proved disastrous for the state of Uttar Pradesh. We have incompetent governments of Mulayam Singh and Mayawati being voted to power, riding on Muslim votes coupled with their caste votes. Since Tactical voting of Muslims made their victory easier,they were least bothered about any development and focussed more on Film Stars programmes,getting the Mangal Dosha removed of Aishwarya Rai or celebrating their birthdays and collecting funds.
Muslims have some genuine cribbs against BJP. Two majorly,one is the Babri Masjid Demolition and other is Gujrat Riots. I will try to convince in my own humble way how BJP has been punished enough for these mistakes. Babri Demolition happened when Kalyan Singh was Chief Minister. He took a bold decision not to open fire on the KarSevaks.That was an intelligent decision because this issue became prominent only when Mulayam opened Fire and got killed many Kar Sevaks in 1990 which hurted the sentiments of Hindus.
If Kalyan Singh has opened fire that day then may be one Disputed structure would have been saved but then BJP would have been finished and a real Rabid Hindu Extremist Organization would have arrived on scene,which would have been difficult to control. BJP for its shortcomings is a Democratic setup and has been apologetic for last 17 years and have been quite secular in its approach toward minorities while ruling at Centre. BJP has lost many elections because of this issue after that.
Kalyan Singh had resigned after 6th December 2006 but people should not forget that Congress was ruling in Centre. Had anybody from Congress resigned.Manmohan Singh may be shedding Crocodile tears now, but he didn’t resigned at that time as he was enjoying the fruits of Power.Kalyan Singh was punished for 1 day imprisonment for contempt of court,was any Congressi Leader punished.
All the riots attributed to Babri demolition started 3 months later and could not be believed to be an instantaneous reaction. They were well planned and most of the places where they happened, were ruled by Congress Governments(Maharshtra).PV Narasimha Rao’s Government dismissed all the BJP State Governments and since then it has become a big stick to beat BJP.
Second one is the unfortunate Gujrat Riots.Lot has been said on it. Many English News Channel moved up the Value Chain because of Gujrath Riots. Many Journalists like Rajdeep Sardesai and Burkha Dutt built their careers out of Gujrat Riots. This was a blot on NDA Government’s six year rule and the constant propaganda raised by English news Channel was one of the causes of defeat of BJP in 2004 Elections.
I will not go in how that happened or who was fault. I will explain how Narendra Modi carried out his “Raj Dharma” as advised by Atal Bihari Vajpayee.The casuality ratio was 1:3 with 300 Hindus dying and 800 Muslims dying. Now if entire State Machinery was involved then the casulaty of Muslims would not have been so small.These figures are given by Shri Praksh Jaiswal who was a Congress Home Minister. So these can be taken as authentic. Compared to other riots like Bhagalpur or Delhi riots where in a short span some 3000-5000 people died ,Modi Government did a relatively better job. Out of 200 Hindus dead,200 died because of Police firing.Modi used Parammilitary forces to control the riots when neighbouring Congress ruled states refused to give Police Force to control riots. Modi did wrong in using Paramillitary forces as they are not trained to control riots and that resulted in death of 200 hindus in police firing but he has no other option as no neighbouring state was giving police force. So this proves that he had a genuine concern for protecting Muslims.
Media and NGOS like Teesta Stelvad speced up the Gujrat Riot stories for their own Commercial reasons. This created a deep sense of insecurity in Muslims.They have done a great disservice to the Nation, Society and yes even to the Muslims.
Congress has always treated Muslims as having Nuisance value. When you treat a person having nuisance value then only you appease him.Thats why despite 60 years ruled by Congress Muslims are in so desperate state. Muslims in BJP ruled states are much better placed off.BJP beleives in “Justice for all, Appeasement to none”.
Congress gives a false sense of Power to Muslims that they are dominating and robs them from behind. Congress makes the Muslim believe that they are living in Middle East situations and Congress is so subservient to them. This is what British use to do while robbing and making the Indian rulers powerless.
Islam has spread in India by Sufi movement and not by sword. What is unfortunate is that for the Arab Imerialism and the desire to dominate the world of some people,the price is paid by Muslims of Sub continent,be it from Afganistan,Pakistan or India. The Muslims of Pakistan/Afganistan and India should ponder among themselves that why it is they only who are sufferening in the Global War Against terror or for the Global Jihad.
NDA Government tried to maintain best relations with Pakistan. Vajpayee went to Minar-Ae-Pakistan to recognize Pakistan as a reality. Vajpayee Government started the humanitarian initiatives in Afganistan. The best realtionship and peace between India and Pakistan happened between 2002-2005 when NDA was ruling over India or its policies were in effect. Pakistan was definitely more stable and prosperous in NDA’s rule.
I personally does not believe in blaming Varun Gandhi or Narendra modi.Its all nonsense. Sir;dont you think the punch line of BJP “Determined leader….decissive Goverment” is the worst possible quote used for election purpose.Dose Advanee is the one and only point of attraction for the nation?Do you think the country love in individual self advertisement? I am a strong supporter of BJP.But shocked when I found this quote under the board of BJP/Advanee. For God shake dont pass the blame game on Varun or Narendra Modi. Advanee jee was the wrong choice.The advertisement strategy was the worst one.conflict with in the organisation fueled the issues.Why Rajnath singh is the President?Who knows him in except UP?Does he a National figure?Where are the main election issues?where are the young players in the party?
@ randheer
your 1:3 ratio is a big joke.. even an ardent hardcore fan of modi will tell you that there was certainly a bias from police.. in fact that is the reason that modi is so popular.. people were fed up of cong’s minority appeasement.. for the first time, they got majority appeasement.. and who does not like being appeased..
if for a moment you forget which party u support, which religion you belong, and start thinking like a neutral person, an indian, a human being, a creation of god.. you will realise who is right and who is wrong.. cheers
Dear RA,
Let me congratulate you for your fight against fanatic extrimists on this forum. I’m no friend of BJP. I wasn’t a friend of congress either, untill off cource 1996. I agree with your opinions on horrible economic policies of Mrs G senior, and equally horrible political blunders like shahbano of Mr G senior.
Now you would wonder why I have become a friend of congress suddenly.
i think I have cracked the case. You know, there are two kinds of responces to debacle of BJP here on this forum.
1. RSS / VHP way,
2. Right of centre policies minus RSS VHP way.
Now my conclusion: People have correctly found that, it’s easier to convert congress to make it perform better rather than reform BJP and hope that it somehow change it’s dark age thinking line. It’s just immpossible. These are as brainwashed people as a Talibani can be. So we better pressurise Congress to change their corrupt ways.
This is my apeal to all people here having their minds and hearts at correct place to give up the fight to change RSS parivar and join the fight to change Congress to perform better. Congress has demonstrated time and again it’s flexibility and willingness to change.
Regards
Kiran
Yes Kiran, Congress is very flexible in every thing. You are absolutely right. Congress plays double/triple standards about about the serious issues like terrorism, price rise, aam admi.. very flexible… some day Lalu, some day Mamta, some day with sibu soren, same day other half of the day with Mulayam.. what flexibility man.. beutiful.. lot of things to learn from it.
And Mr SJ, If murderes have to punished, please ask your pet suedo minority appeasers who have been p[laying with the natioanl interest to hang the criminals that they have p[roduced, entertained and have allied with to grab power until now. And I bet if 7 years of investigation against Mr Modi has p[roved nothing, BJP friends are ready to wait until the final verdict(hopefully hawala money will not be given to CBI and other officials to forge documents).
But SJ, please remember it takes extraordinary courage to continue on the development and reform path in a state irrespective of the ill treatement given by people like you and congress.
Name a single leader of congress who has been relentlessly working for the people and have shown exemplary leadership not by words but by action even after continuos dragging and back stabbing by ill minded people like you.
Modi ji ki Jai ho. Carry on your work and let congress CMs replicate you in their states.. atleast the country as a whole will prosper.
BJP CMs can go beyond cast politics and suedo secular (congress) politics, yet do better and better.
Jai Hind.
@SJ,
Also please remember one thing, if Kargil incident had happenned during congress period, we would have by now lost half of our land and God knows how many heads…
I salute the daring BJP and NDA govt that time who have thrown those enemies out and taught them - never play games with us the Indians.. Else you pay the heaviest price..
If Congress govt were present that time, would have welcomed the enemies with open hand.. as its there captive vote bank.. appease some of the ill minded minorities.. let India surrender before the terrorist countries.. Shame on you and your nasty friends of congress who could not give the country any image during 62 years.. Not to talk about our poor Human development Index. Sad …
If India got some positive image in world, credit goes to the NDA regime in 1998-2004.
Jai Hind.. Akhand Bharat.. Let us all pledge to change the face of India.. Let us all be united as Indians and be the change agents. Nations glory should be visible in the face of every Indian, not the captive vote banks of congress.
India,Israel and China became Independent at the same time. Look where have Israel and China reached and where are we.Our only competitor is Pakistan.
All this is because of 60 years rule of Congress.I agree with True Friend on “If India got some positive image in world, credit goes to the NDA regime in 1998-2004.”.
Earlier we were begging before the World that we are a little better than Pakistan and feeling proud on it. Andhra Pradesh or Hyderabad got its best development in NDA
rule only. 4 years continous Draught and still NDA provided Rice at Rs15 a KG, but if people are so much obsessed with Congress then it is a matter of choice.
BJP should keep doing its good work in states which have shown trust in it.
@ True friend of BJP
I am not comparing bjp vs cong here.. did i ever mention cong in my opinions??? just because i am against an individual doesnt mean i am pro congress or something… all i said is that Modi is a terrorist because, he is responsible for the killing of innocent civilians… and hence not a good human being…
its a pity people are bending over in order to protect and justify a terrorist like Modi… just because he happens to share the same religion with you..
SJ I won’t say much to you as I know you are purposely trying to create confusion. A typical Congress trick.
I will say only one thing that Modi ji has not used the nuisance Value or Power associated with the position of a Chief Minister and the matters have reached to such a stage that Media and NGO’s have openly started calling him a terrorist. This is the price India gives to an Honest person. Sometime you have to use your power.
Can the Media/NGO’s think of running such campaigns against leaders like Mayawati/Mulayam and others. Just think on it,many of the NGOs are based in Gujrat only.
This Media nuisance has started in 2002 with Barkha and Rajdeep coverage of Godhra and Gujrat Riots and now this has reached to such a proportion that people are calling Modi a terrorist. BJP should have acted against this Media nuisance in 2002 only and they would have been spared seeing this day.
Modi Ji should learn to act Shameless now. No point in acting Honest in such a shameless society. He should say that “yes there were riots and 300 Hindu/800 Muslim Die”. I may or may not have done my job well. But people selected me again and all mouths should shut up now.
If relection by people of A.P can finish all the corruption charges against YSR then why not against Modi.
If possible Modi Ji should say that yes there were some mistakes in handling gujrat riots but offcourse not intentional and same were there in Sikh/Bhagalpur and all other riots.
Like Manmohan said about 1984,same Gujrat is also a dead episode.
@ Randheer
as i said to Mr True friend of bjp, i am not a fan of any parties, and i am not comparing bjp with cong… as regards modi being a terrorist, i am not taking the media’s help.. i was very much in gujarat in 2002, and have lived in the state for 26 years.. everybody in gujarat knows that it was HE, who conspired, planned and executed the whole riots pogrom… ask even a hardcore bjp/rss supporter in gujarat.. absolutely no body denies it.. its only in public that people make such statements that he controlled riots in 3 days etc..
yes he has not been PROVEN guilty yet.. but thats just a legal aspect.. that shows the lethargy of our judiciary and the failure of our law enforecement agency… even after 7 years the investigation is still going on.. and he is still roaming free.. even ruling the state.. in any other truly free country, he would have been jailed long time back.. instead of fighting and arguing with each other in support of a terrorist, we should all come together and denounce his acts.. thats how bjp can become stronger.. by being truly an INDIAN Peoples party .. not for a particular caste or community… hope you understand.. cheers !!
Dear SJ,
If you are so democratically calling Modi as a terrorist, then why is your idiot congress party making so much fuss about it. Let you and your party find him guilty. 7 years of investigation - God knows how much money your anti national party has spent from public exchecqure to proove someone guilty. Still chasing.. Can your congress do any other meaningful business by punishing the kasav, other hard core terrorist who have been given death mandate already? How long will congress play the minority politics? U didnt react to one point.. can u ? can u ?
Kargil war would have been the costliest ever if Congress were in power that time.. God has saved our India by rightfully keeping congress out of power that time.. shameful aam admi ke name vote magne wale poor congress… just remember the quattrochi.. The nation wont let the case get out of hand.. ur media may.. ur party may.. the nation wont forget and forgive all those enemies of country who have tied up with congress to get a safe heaven and perpetrate terrorism and violence in the peaceful land. Just wait. The ghosts are hunting your party..
Dear SJ,
I know nothing what people on Street say, I only know facts and these facts are from Congressi Home Minister. 250 Hindus and 900 Muslims died. 200 people died in police firing. Your beloved Congress Party CMs Digvijay Singh and VilasRao Deshmukh who refused to send Police force.
Modi was forced to use Para Millitary forces which resulted in so many deaths in police Firings.These are hard Facts.
Yes Modi and BJP messed up handling media hype and their performance with Media Handling is really Poor and disgustful and they are paying the price for it and will pay more in future if they don’t improve upon it.
Dear True friend of BJP..
Once again… I AM NOT FROM CONGRESS OR PRO CONGRESS.. and i agree 100% with you about your views about congress and their dirty politics.. ok??
Now lets move to our topic.. that is modi.. just because congress is ugly does not make modi beautiful.. does it??? in your two paragraphs, you did not justify killing of innocents by modi.. do you support his acts or not.. if yes why.. that is the question..
@ Randheer
Again, cong is not my beloved party.. no party is my beloved.. i just love my country..
I dont care what the congressi home minister says.. you do not know what people in the street says but i definitely know.. go to gujarat and ask ANY person.. be it a bjp walla, rss walla, or congress walla.. its a known fact my dear.. media has nothing to do with it.. YES media creates hype.. but facts remain facts..
Dear SJ,
If Modi has to actually kill innocent people,then why only 800 people,why not 8000 or 80000 people
If you are not a Congressi then think on it,use your brains. Even the carefully edited Videos of NDTV will show you that in all Frames of Violence police or RAF is there and they are either firing,or doing lathicarge or firing tear gas. These are NDTV Videos ont gujrat Government Video.
The case will not stand for a day in Court and thats why Media’s and Congress interest would be to keep it lingering to Polarize Muslim Votes.
BJP will take on Congress politically but they have to do some “Out of Box” thing for Media definitely.
BTW Elections are over and Varun Gandhi’s Hate speech CD which was first aired by CNN-IBN of Rajdeep Sardesai played a great role in it to polarize votes. If Varun supposedly made a mistake was it right and ethical on part of CNN-IBN to show that CD and so many times and even knowing that it is made by Varun’s Congressi rival.This is what English Media has stooped to. What if there were riots after seeing this. Rajdeep Sardesai was the one who made the burnt Godhra Train a tourist spot and which caused 2002 riots.
Now elections are over ,why are they not proving the CD as genuine and puting Varun for life imprisonment. Is the need to preserve secularism over now.
SJ,
With all respect to your frustration, which is around Modi only, can you please provide circumstanial evidence against Modi please? Please stop shouting against Modi if you cant tolerate the way he is developing the state and leaving all other congress leaders to wonder and wonder..
Get the evidence and we will talk. Until then if possible, only think and think of the larger interests and possibly why cant congress produce a single CM like Modi yet (62 years.. haann.. just keep that in mind).. get back when u have data.. dont reply unnecessarily until then.
This guy SJ is a Congress support here to create trouble. It’s very obvious from his comments. Throw this SOB out.
This guy SJ is a Congress support here to create trouble. It’s very obvious from his comments. Throw this SOB out…
I agree with New Yorker. SJ seems suspicious. Moderators need to look into his comments and he is trying to create trouble for Hindus and BJP out here.
Hey SJ, get the hell out, you traitor.
@ SJ
We are not interested in your pro-Congress comments out here, you freak.
SJ is a dangerous psycho sent to this forum by the Congress.
BJP has always handled Media very badly. Probbaly like othe middle Class guys they got carried away by the English speaking skills and sophistication of Media. ironically BJP Govt only started 24/7 News concept. Not only English Media there is Hindi version of NDTV/CNN-IBN and even Star News.
They are equally Anti-BJP.
Media has fooled them in Kandhar issue,Gujrat Riots issue and they easily fell Prey for it.Why did they got moved by crying relatives popped up by Media(NDTV)in Kandhar issue,so that this could be used as symbol of weakness later.So many people die,if 175 more have died how would have it mattered. That Khandhar issue punctured Advani ji’s campaign and now God knows how many more poeple will die.
Why a strong party like BJP with Government in so many states can’t humiliate and attack Media when smaller parties like Samajwadi party and RJD can take a hard stance against Media.
BJP Leaders should be given some crash courses by Professor Amar Singh. The way he is aatacking Barkha Dutt and Veer Sanghvi is really Music to ears. I wish our leaders can do that. We have to finish the credibility of Media. All 60 years of dirty politics will become clear before the public and in particular of last 8 years if BJP does so.
Subject: Everyone come and join the re-election issue with unity.
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Please do it with unity and full force. If we win for re-election in front of election commission, then we will definitely win elections after relection orders from election commission of india.
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Badri
Your answer is in your statements - you don’t care. That is exactly why we were ruled by Mughals and British. Before hanging Modi, please hang all the people from Congress who killed sikhs in Delhi and their leader Rajiv justified it.
@ Randheer and True friend..
No, I dont have any evidence against NM. Similarly, I dont have any evidence against Dawood, Osama or Laloo yadav. But does that mean they are all innocent??? OK. Dont believe me. Ask at least 50 people in Gujarat this question “did NM have any hand in the riots or not”… you will get the answer.
My dear friends, its no use living in denial..stop protecting and supporting criminals, think as an Indian first and then thnk abt religion, language, caste etc.. that is if you care about the country at all…
BEWARE Of Congressis in this Forum !!!
There is a great master trick of Congressis and they have fooled public by this and even Media has learned it quite well. Trick is that you curse Congress a lot but say that others
are equally bad. This is a trick to produce the TINA(There is no other alternative) factor. These kind of people including Media will talk of some shortcommings of Congressand then will paint the Opposition as Real Devil. It is same thing as they did during Bombay Attack of 26/11. Make people cynical of all politicians and the ultomate loosers will be Left and BJP because they stand for something however wrong or right it is. Since Congress stands for nothing ,people can’t hate it strongly and hence it becomes
the default choice.
SJ et al. (who think Modi is criminal),
You do not have evidence against either, but court has evidence against all of them (I don’t know about Obama) except Modi and by that logic Modi is not proven guilty, so calling him criminal is not just uncalled for, but even preposterous. So I believe you better apply one standard to all.
My personal opinion (note: opinion) is that Modi is unlikely to be involved in any of the rioting (directly or indirectly) but this does not absolve him from the fact that - there were riots while he was CM (and thus responsible for maintaining Law and Order in the state) and to that effect he’s answerable to people of Gujarat and the fact that people of Gujrat have elected him twice consecutively means they’ve learnt to move on but most of the ’self proclaimed proponents of humanity’ still keep flodging the dead horse…. (I even doubt whether Muslims of Gujrat care about this anymore… Except of the Teesta Setalwad variety)
Having said that there are no problems in BJP except media management is something I would not agree to at all. There are a bunch of problems (I still keep reading the semi-denial writeups from BJP leaders….)
Coming to the point of Modi’s candidature, as PM.. I don’t think its a wise idea for BJP to project him as a PM candidate.. Why? Simple - There is a large section of society that still thinks that Modi is guilty (quite unfortunately) and his candidature will not bode well with that section of Society. As a political party the first objective is to make sure that you come to power (with legitimate means of course). Of course I am assumin that - it is BJP still has that objective (though it is hardly visible from its actions).
Sushma Swaraj will be a sitting Duck for Congress and Media. All her comments like “Shaving her head” if Sonia wins will be played again and again over all channels. She will finish BJP,original to two seats.Dr Murali manohar Joshi would be projected as Old and failed HRD minister by Media.
We need Narendra Modi as President and Shivraj Singh Chauhan as Prime Minister. It is a Dalit/OBC combination and Media’s ego will be satisfied for some time that they have defeated Modi ji. Modi ji has long career and public memory is short may be he can be candidate for 2019.Media wants to see Modi humbled and let them have this pleasure.
BJP should make Shahnawaj Hussain who is young and from Muslim community as Leader of Opposition for next 2 years. This will cool down Muslims a bit,will give BJP sufficient time for transition.
This will also Puncture Media’s and Congress campaign for painting BJP as communal.
Dear SJ,
Your arguments about NM are well taken. I am afraid but they are logically fallacious. I just take those as opinions because you yourself have stated that you don’t have facts. In this case if you accuse others that they also don’t have facts about Dawood etc… that is just fallacy - “If I am not right you are also not right”. I am sorry, here you are just giving your opinions about NM not facts. If you don’t care facts and data given by home minister then your entire position is fallacious based on opinion not on facts. You are falling in many other fallacies like – ad populum (ask people), converse fallacy of accident (50 people you ask and they say NM is involved) and irrelevant conclusion (If you believe NM is criminal, he must be a criminal). I don’t have to explain you all because probably you may know all these or you can figure it out, I believe. Simply, Teesta made many accusations and SIT disproved it. Nanavati commission also did not indicate that there is no evidence against state sponsored violence. So please think that who is in denial mode. Yes I take the most important point in your statement “Think as an Indian first” but how that is relevant to NM being criminal. This is again a fallacy called non-sequitur. He has not yet been charged or accused by any court of law. How come anyone discuss in this premise with so many fallacies exist in arguments. I am sorry if I am hurting you. But I am just putting my arguments against your arguments, it is not against you as a person.
Correction -
“Nanavati commission also did not indicate that there is no evidence against state sponsored violence.”
Nanavati Commission also indicated that there is no evidence against state sponsored violence.
My love
after reading some of reaction, few have lost the mental control reveal there disbalance. Mind.
Lest me start from a: sloka of Veda:
“Yatra Brahma cha Chatriya charath sah !
Tatra SRI VIJAY bhuti dhrava niti mati mah!!
Whenever Fire and water walks together,
the right success( Sri Vijay) happen it’s a rule.
Whenver silence and sound present rightly together
then only melody born….
Whenever Implementer and Designer walks together success
Achieved
Whenever engineer and scientist work together miracle happened.
In past there ware sri bajpaiji and sri adwaniji was walking together. .we enjoy the test of success.
Now Adwaniji and Modiji..both are fire.. and we sincerely missing the water… success rule was absent and alone one will never give success…
More of fire turn the environment…hot and terrorized
More of water make the environment Cold and Lethargic
Only the Right combination both fire and water create the balance. .which BJP was missing this time.. no doubt.
But in congress…combination Calm Manomohan and aggressive efforts of Rahul…create a success. ….no doubt….
I am partially agree with sudip and partially with other aggressive friends…
we can see just due to 60 yrs rule of congress make us lethargic and coward…we need the combination of congress and BJP…or alone BJP can create the combination of clam+ Fire…..
let me take the mind of readers during Mahabharat war…combination of krishna+Arjun….bring the success to pandav….Calm and Cool Krishan+ Powerfull and aggrasive Arjun= Sri Vijay…
let me wish my people understand the concepts before reacts…
prem
Rishi Akash.
Agree with Hrishkesh
We need Narendra Modi as President and Shivraj Singh Chauhan as Prime Minister. It is a Dalit/OBC combination and Media’s ego will be satisfied for some time that they have defeated Modi ji. Modi ji has long career and public memory is short may be he can be candidate for 2019.Media wants to see Modi humbled and let them have this pleasure.
BJP should make Shahnawaj Hussain who is young and from Muslim community as Leader of Opposition for next 2 years. This will cool down Muslims a bit,will give BJP sufficient time for transition.
This will also Puncture Media’s and Congress campaign for painting BJP as communal.
BJP should make Bangaru laxman a dalit Leader in A.P and for Tamil Nadu should search for a Film Star.
Do yo think the biased Media and Congress will ever allow BJP to appear moderate. BJP branded as communal is necessary for survival of both. Lot of Mangalore Pub Attacks could be staged and some fake Ram Sene could be made to make BJP appear communcal. Lot of Congressis themselves can fake as Bajrangis and attack Pubs,churches and Womens and Media can give a 24/7 coverage to that.
Please understand Minorities are sufficiently scared is in strategic interest of Congress. If minorities are not scared then won’t they vote for BJP,what is need for Congress then.
Even Media wants to scare Minorities otherwise they would not have played Varun’s video 1000 times.
Congress will also create lot of fake minorities and keep them scared,like UPites and Biharis in Bombay,Pub going womens. Congress will keep the social tension growing as then only
it can appear as a Party which does the balancing act. BJP has to understand this and devise its strategies.
“Nanavati Commission also indicated that there is no evidence against state sponsored violence.”
The nanavati commission was a commission setup by the modi govt. Mr.Nanavati owes his position to Narendra Modi and so any report submitted by him is bound to be suspect.
If modi is really keen to clear his name and his own conscience is really clear he should allow the Supreme Court to appoint a commission to conduct an impartial investigation.
Until then the pseudo-secular crowd can continue ,with some justification, to rub Modi’s nose into the ground on his credentials.
Randheer
Making Shananwaz opposition leader will not help. Muslims did not vote for BJP even after Abdul Kalam was made the president. They basically want Congress who can appease them and give them whatever they want.
Arvind:
Yes its a fact that Muslims and Christians will never vote for BJP.Biased Media and Congress will never allow BJP to appear moderate. BJP branded as communal is necessary for survival of both. Lot of Mangalore Pub Attacks could be staged and some fake Ram Sene could be used to make BJP appear communcal and against modernity. Lot of Congressis themselves can fake as Bajrangis and attack Pubs,churches and Womens and Media
can give a 24/7 coverage to that.
Please understand Minorities are sufficiently scared is in strategic interest of Congress. If minorities are not scared then won’t they vote for BJP,what is need for Congress then.
Even Media wants to scare Minorities otherwise they would not have played Varun’s video 1000 times.
Congress will also create lot of fake minorities and keep them scared,like UPites and Biharis in Bombay,Pub going womens. Congress will keep the social tension growing as then only
it can appear as a Party which does the balancing act. BJP has to understand this and devise its strategies.
ShahNawaz Husaain as opposition leader will be only 2 years stop gap arrangement to buy time and to blunt Media for sometime. Even Modi Ji should leave Gujrat for sometime and play some organizational role. he is a sanyasi. He has nothing to lose. This will strengthen Organization and will blunt media and Congress for sometime.
@Hath ki Safai
That is utter ignorance and pure crap.
The Modi Government filed an application requesting supreme court to provide sitting judges to form a commission. Supreme Court said in reply that it was not possible for sitting judges because of work load and then Supreme court only suggested Nanavati on which Modi Okayed and the Commission was formed. And what about SIT report?