What is the Nation we want to be? (Part 2)
by Amit Malviya
Possible Solution
Dr Subramanian Swamy on 19Jul09 speaking in Darmouth, Mass in US, advocated the concept of Brihad Virat Hindutava and argued its relevance to bring about a renaissance in the current secular India’s value system and thus create a unified patriotic and spiritual society. At present, he said, the Indian nation is slowly but surely sliding into a crass one-dimensional society of material pursuits which can lead to the nation’s Balkanisation.
Dr. Swamy was delivering the Special Public Lecture as guest of honour, to the delegates of the 18th International Congress on Vedanta held for three days at the campus of the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth. Dr. Swamy said that Hindu civilization has lasted so long, in fact the longest, is because it was a society that had found a blend and harmonization of material pursuits with spiritual values.
He further elaborated : “In the 19th century, Swami Vivekananda had propagated the concept of Brihad{Greater} Hindutva, while Sri Aurobindo and Veer Savarkar who had spoken from different perspectives, advocated a Virat[virile] Hindutva. All these revelations were made to the people in pre-political de-colonised India. But unfortunately after becoming free, the academia and political power went into the hands of Marxists and Macaulayists who were determined to reduce the Hinduness of Indians to a minimum of acceptability labeling it as obscurantist and politically chauvinist, or communal and fundamentalist, and make out the concept as a danger to secularism. He said that the history of Hinduism disproves these charges, but the slander continues. Now to end the current moral degeneration in a democratic dispensation in India, he would advocate propagating a synthesis of Vedanta, Brihad and Virat concepts.
Dr. Swamy declared that time has come to confront the Marxist and Macaulayists and challenge them to a debate a new synthesis of Brihad Virat Hindutva if they dare to debate.
Challenges
This is essentially a great concept but the challenge lies in implementing it without being perceived as exclusive and pro Hindu. The pseudo secular-communal divide in the country is so mis-propagated and wide that being pro nationalist and cultural is invariably seen as pro Hindu and hence not secular. This debate has gone on for far too long and is ingrained in people’s psyche now. The challenge is to overcome this and instill cultural pride and feeling of patriotism in the people of India and build an inclusive spiritual society. The concept also needs to be articulated in simpler terms so that the common man can understand and relate it to his daily life. Unlike most ideologies it should be contemporary and progressive. This is easier said than done !
It would be great to hear what you think.
Comments
215 Responses to “What is the Nation we want to be? (Part 2)”
No Amit it is not that difficult - Shri Shri Ravi Shankar, Baba Ramdev, Rishi Prabhakar, Swami Parthasarthy et. al. are already propagating such values. And I think they have succeeded in a way that organisations like RSS and BJP haven’t. There is a growing hindu network that is countering the slandering of our culture.
Aside from electoral reverses that are more about political & organisational failures. The hindu society is getting stronger at the roots.
-tarun
Expand SAARC by roping China,Afghanistan & other adjacent nations to evolve U.A.S.- United Asian States; the biggest sovereignty on globe; on the pattern of E.U.- European Union, to tilt the political polarity of the world as a whole.
Spend every penny; being spent on armaments against each other nations, willing to unite as U.A.S.; for the uplift & betterment of life standards of the populace of to be formed U.A.S.
It is the only wisdom which should prevail upon the Leaders of the joining nations to form U.A.S. because the people want it too, to enjoy total peace,harmony & prosperity in U.A.S., likely to be established.
So far the latest ism- terrorism; which is the progeny of politicians, Priests & an erroneus system to sustain human society; is concerned, The H.O.M.- The House Of Militants be established by giving responsibility to this progeny to keep Check & Balance by taking stock of the workings of the organs of governance in the U.A.S. & let whole world see this unique system to sustain & engage this said progeny- Terrorists to show their mettle as humans, as firstly they are so.
If the better senses do not prevail upon the Leaders of the nations likely to unite as U.A.S. then wait for a catastrophe at the behest of most diabolical weapons, piles of which are lying with almost every nation these days..
Comments solicited: aagassociates@yahoo.com
Excellent Idea. What is needed is a Hindu Lobby just like the minority lobby. This lobby should be powerful enough with money and power to influence the public opinion.
Also needed is a bold media voice for spreading the opinion. We have the journalists (not the JNU type) and other powerful personalities who can be used in this Media. A TV channel and a newspaper is a must. All that is needed is the organization of the Hindu voice in various places into one.
It is time Hindus, do a sel introspection and see what need to be done to improve in the way we perceive and practice the religion.
Time and again we are seeing allegations of sexual abuses, money laundering, tantrik misleading people on treasures by beheading. These to an extent are there in pockets in other religions too, but we are the only country with the hindus in these numbers. So leadership is requred to follow the basic tenets of this great philosphy/religion.
On the overallthis is beyond BJP, it is for Organisations like Bajarang Dal, Ram Sena to make Hindu Philosphers tobring some sense of discipline in the religion.
For the overall Brihad Virat Hindustan, how can achieve this without setting the above right. For someone to see a Virile Greater Hindustan, we have to show a virtue which they feel is truly above par. With the way the pseudo secularists are movng, the way we have not found the answers to caste issues, as it is mentioned in Gita, we are not doing anything virile or Brihat.It might remain a dream, unless unless unless a huge mass movement happens to bring the Hindus out of the deep slumber.
I would just put the blame, if one can call that, on changing times. I don’t think anyone is deliberately trying to change the influence of any particular sect as such.
We as a society will do good to ourselves if we focus on capitalising our economy and move towards UCC as a socio-political change. As we become stronger, most other issues will take care of them selves.
Given that most of the TV networks are left leaning it is an excellent opportunity for a right leaning TV network to tap into the audience who are interested to discuss Hindu issues. This is exactly what the Fox News Channel in USA tapped into back in 1996 and is now the No. 1 in viewship. Here is some cank ground info from wiki (link below)
The channel was launched on October 7, 1996[1] to 17 million cable subscribers. The network slowly rose to prominence in the late 1990s. In the United States, Fox News Channel has been rated as the cable news network with the largest number of regular viewers.[2]
Critics and some observers of the channel say that Fox News Channel promotes conservative political positions.[3][4] Fox News Channel publicly denies any bias in the channel’s reporting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel
BJP must strongly raise the issue of FAKE THOUSAND AND FIVE HUNDRED CURRENCY NOTES IN CIRCULATION. It should ask government to BAN ALL FIVE HUNDRED AND THOUSAND RUPEE CURRENCY NOTES FROM MARKET WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT TO CHECK CORRUPTION AND FAKE CURRENCY.
It should also raise issue of backout by pak to arrest masterminds as it fails the test of trust and verify of PM.
There are so many issues that need to be raised and really don’t know any body in the BJP parliamentary committe or any body in the BJP office is looking at this website. We need some confirmation other our posts have no effect on them.
I second SKG’s proposal. There are great points being debated here and we need a face which can take the essence of these discussions to the various fora of the party. I have been raising this all along, but no one seems interested.
Similar demand has been made by the members of the forum in LK advani ji’s blog and there seems to be some activity there. Can we expect to hear something on this?
Yes, we need a confirmation. What is the point of intellectuals debating here without any body from the BJP looking into them. Are they really sincere in improving the party and taking the help or just interested in staying in power to make money like other parties ?. If they are sincere, many intellectuals will help them , however if they are like other parties interested in money then our posting is of no big use to BJP.
calling oneself an intellectual is not a very intelligent thing..
… and the dumbest thing is to loyally support a political party… how can one be loyal to a party.. you can be loyal to your country, but not a party.. the intelligent thing to do is support and vote that party which is better than others during that particular time… really you guys are wasting your time…
[[[calling oneself an intellectual is not a very intelligent thing.]]] and you are the “biggest intellectual”, so please draw your own conclusions.
Nobody has ever said on this page that they are loyal to any party. Please educate me if any one has done so. If you feel we are wasting our time here, why are you joining in?
Sir, you are free to criticise, but please substantiate your claims. Please dont make rhetorical statements. It helps no one.
Thanks for your understanding!
then what is the meaning of this site.. why is it called friends of bjp if it is not loyal to it… it is not called friends of india right?? so by default it is loyal to bjp… you dont need to say it..
The reason I said that intellectuals are debating because most of the people are because of their backgrounds. Most of the people who comment are well educated, aware of the political scenario in India and have excellent intellectual and analytical skills. I am not boasting about myself on this website. I myself is a post graduate in computer science and I don’t any certificate from any body to say that I am an intellectual. I have good C.G.P.A and I have believe in myself. That belief is sufficient to go to any heights in life. There is a thin line between being confident and being Self-boasting. I know where that line and I try myself to not cross that line.
Regarding the best party, most of the people are aware here who that best party is and there is enough material to find the answer to this question.
BJP should capitalize the anti-congress lobby to unite with it in raising and supporting the issues of small parties against the congress/upa.
Mulayam, Lalu and Left are in difference with the government in so many governance and policy issues. BJP must support them so that they support BJP on the floor of parliament to corner UPA Government and BJP is not isolated. It should play the role of the principal opposition in true spirit taking on board all the anti-congress parties to corner UPA.
Our debate is getting deviated from what Amit is trying to instill inside each of us.
I have realised how the western devices like computers,music player and their other materliastic belongings is trying to root out our values of family bonding and humaneness. Its the propaganda in which these so called psuedo secularist and western leaders are adept it and hell bent to broadcast a thousand lies to us and its the short coming of our next generation to analyze and ignore them is the cause for concern.
Sri sri Ravi Shankar and Ramdev baba are doing a lot but still we need a youth icon who can be seen as icon and have fan following like these sharukh and amir khans have done to today’s youth. They virtually are not ready to accept values spread by Ramdev baba and other leader and capitalism is forcing them to think the darwin’s theory of survival of fittest and powerful. Some how is see Vedanta, Brihad and Virat concepts can counter this bring back the truly patriotic feeling for bharat inside all of us and uproot the suedo secularism divide and rule concept. I think rather than BJP doing this people like Ramdev Baba,Sri sri Ravi shankar,Dr Subramanian Swamy need to focus on our debate and start these mass movement.
Virat Hindutva
I feel myself to know very little about it the more i read the more i feel that it is the only way to develop a progressive and healthy world.
sanatan dharma has been the mother of all dharma.
BJP has to move on its own way & not work as ant-congress factor.
@ skg… this attitude of “die hard” supporting of a political party is called sycophancy my dear… and is dangerous for our contry… there should be no friends of bjp or friends of congress or friends of commi… only friends of india and indian democracy… as a educated and enlightened citizen we should keep the political parties on their toes and not give blind support…whichever party, whether ruling or opposistion… compare their attitudes and action, and vote for whichever we feel is best in that time.. and not just blindly vote to one party… many people here are saying and wishing and hoping that bjp comes to power in 2014.. why and why not… but as a concerned citizen i wud wish, let the best party of 2014 win the elections… and if the verdict goes against our thinking, accept it gracefully and move on.. instead of cribbing and crying and creating stupid forums…
“Character, in the long run, is the decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike”
— Theodore Roosevelt, American adventurer and 26th president (1858-1919)
Manmohan Singh’s recent statement has generated lot of debate on PM’s weakness and India’s response to terror and Pakistan in general. Most of what has been published and spoken at different forums have not addressed the core of the issue and have largely remained confined to spine of an individual and his diplomatic and political acumen, which we all know does not amount to much.
What has been largely ignored is the fact that statement itself does not count for much, you can make most pacifist statement and still aggressively pursue your interest and you may give most daring and outrageous statement and bend over when faced with a challenge.
I believe that any Indian politician or leader would essentially tow a predictable line when it comes to taking any challenge to India’s security head on - they will seek a safe and soft escape route and try to save face with some strong words and actions lacking conviction and certitude to carry them out to the end and feverishly hope that people forget the outrage till other one happens, hopefully when they are not in the hot seat - for some other bugger to face the devil.
Weather it is BJP or Congress or any other national and regional party we can actually predict what will happen when our people are taken hostage, our cities are bombed and our neighbour violiates our security. If we look at the cronology of events in last 60 years we see a pattern of weakness, leaders and people want to be happy putting outrage behind them and moving on..
India as a nation does not have spine - we have lacked national character since 300 BC when Greeks invaded us and ruled a large part of the nation, since then we made our rear available for the pleasure of invaders, marauders and aggressors.
Since then India’s character (mainly Hindu character) has been defined by defeatism, delusion, pettiness and narrow mindedness. Nothing much has changed from 3 century BC till now! We lack the courage to overcome our own prejudices and weaknesses so we lack courage to face adversity and give in to the weakest of adversaries. Bangladesh killed and maimed and dragged our security forces all the way to the border and dumped them right on our face and we caved in - if we do not have the balls to defend ourselves and seek vengeance against Bangladesh we send out a strong signal to the world that we are same vulnerable and soft state that we have been for last 5000 years and nothing much has changed
Unless there is transformation in national character there is not much hope that we will prevent another 26/11 or collapse of Indian (Hindu) civilization in the long run. If we have to take some lessons we can look at Jews and how they transformed from a defeatist community to a small but strong and assertive force in the world, but the price they paid to realize their folly was holocaust - annihilation of 6 million of their brethren in Europe (50% of their community). We will be foolish to pay that kind of price to learn a simple but critical lesson - national character is the only defense against extinction as a community and country!
“@biggest intellect..”
who said to you we are loyal to bjp. our loyalty if any to bjp comes as a result of our loyalty to india which actually translates to loyalty to rich indian culture and civilization which we call as hindutva and which we seek to preserv and prosper. most of us are of the opinion that this can be done only if bjp is able to come to power and our nations future is bleak in the hands of current dispensation ,that is the only reason we are here. in fact, i am sure, most of us
like me is very much disillusioned with bjp because of the way it is functioning and have questioned the current state of affairs and called for changes. if you call this type of independent thinking as sycophancy i am not sure how you are able stay cool in a country which is ruled by a clique known to barter the national interest just to worship a family for profit,power or whatever.
Biggest intellectual, we cannot live in denial the damage and destruction that has been done to Hindus in the name of moderation, tolerance and secularism. They have been pushed around by so called secular parties and will eventually be ethnically cleansed by the rising majority of Islam. The rise of Islam has already been phenomenal in India through all dubious means without any control by the government of India. It is aiding it by all kinds of appeasement policies. When Islam becomes majority, No Gandhi, no tolerance, no secularism can save Hindus . The only political party that can atleast work for Hindus is BJP. Hindutva is the eternal character of India’s sanatan dharma.
Congress will never be able to restore the greatness of Indian culture or Indian heritage. It will be always be subservant to the desert culture and desert religion. It will make India slaves to Gandhi dynasty. Hope Gandhi dynasty will become weak like Mughal dynasty. The once powerful Mughal dynasty became weak with the emergence of a small but powerful king Shivaji with excellent fighting skills. So will be the fall of Gandhi dynasty with the emergence of some party which will take the spirit of King Shivaji. Be it the BJP or any other party. Whichever party it is it, we will support with our whole heart. Jai Hind.
Dear BI, You are the first person who wrote the concerns about the India. I really have a high regard for that. I also feel that everyone should keep country first then party. As you rightly suggested there should be friends of India and Indian democracy. Any democratic country is ruled by the different political parties. BJP is one such party in India. Everyone has his/her own idea for the betterment of the country and most the people in this forum feels that their perception for better India matches with BJPs idea “Country First”. Hence, the people here feel that BJP can do better for this country. Everything is not correct with BJP and similarly with other parties. However, in this forum most of the people feel that BJP comes on the top when it comes to clean politics, better development and good governance apart from the political compulsions. I also support BJP because of that. I do not like everything that BJP does and hence I criticize at times and that is what friends do. Comparative analysis suggest that BJP performs well on the issues of national importance and hence supporting BJP means supporting better future of India. However, the issues which are not correct with BJP must be sorted out and that is what all the forum members are doing.
please read “you are among the first persons….” No offense intended to others. If anyone feels hurt, I sincerely feel sorry.
I read on wikipedia thta Mr Swamy was instrumental in bringing down the Vajpayee Govt, the first time around. Does anyone know why he did that or is it a wrong fact?
I followed Mohan’s site which has a link to IBN program in which one of the anchors says Congress is a right of centre party. And I am going……..whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/94984/06_2009/ftn1506_2a/bjp-unable-to-cope-with-poll-debacle.html
BI, you would be knowing that blowing horns behind a deaf man bears no fruit. Leave the disgruntled and bruised BJP supporters, they would never come to terms with the reality. BJP or congress, both are diverse representation of various people, it would not be any different when it comes to execution, both have fallen short of their claims, however congress with one eye is better than the completely blind BJP.
Hi Ram…Appreciate if you can elaborate what you mean when you say “however congress with one eye is better than the completely blind BJP”.
i think in future we have to ignore messages like rams or “Biggest..” as spam. this is not the forum to discuss superiority of congress or bjp. we hardly need to do that. we are here to discuss how it might be possible to make bjp better representative of national interest and to share our views about things of national interest. ram and biggest only serve a distraction to this cause and we had been good enough to reply to them . in future i request others to treat them as spammers and continue with the main discussion without getting diverted by them or anyone else like them.
haha.. thats a great philosophy “if you agree with my view you are good, if not you are a spammer..” truely intelligent.. my dear dev, the first condition to betterment and growing up is to open your eyes, ears and more imp. your mind to various thoughts, opionions and ideas.. if you are really serious about “national interest”, you should be ready to take the brickbats along with your bouquets.. otherwise good luck being a sycophant..
These BI guy is teasing other guys and diverting the discussion.
He can be ignored if he continues like this or he should be told to explian what is his aim,purpose is ? Or he is just a confused soul who has given up like a teen who is frustated in these times of media brain washing.
I am sure he will again reply back with nonsense or if he would have understood my above posting he would shut up and talk sense.
Dear BI, Calling others sycophant does not help either. They are the people who does not agree in general with your views. If you don’t want yourself to be called spammer because others view do not matches with yours, similarly you should not call anyone sycophant because your view do not match with others. I agree it is not an intelligence that“if you agree with my view you are good, if not you are a spammer… ” similarly neither it is also not intelligence when you call “this attitude of “die hard” supporting of a political party is called sycophancy”. Please comment on what I posted as reply to your message.
To me congress dynasty is a continuation of where Mughal dynasty left. Mughal dynasty had the ambition of making India “Darul-Islam”. Congress dynasty is helping this ambition come true through major minority appeasement policies and importing minorities from Bangladesh.
@ skg
असल में कल के कुछ सत्ता लोभी राजाओं और आज के तथाकथित धर्मनिरपेक्ष कहे जाने वाले नेताओं में कोई फर्क नहीं .सत्ता प्राप्ति के लिए दोनों ने ही मुस्लिम जिहादियों से समझोता किया .
देश के तथाकथित धर्म निरपेक्ष कहे जाने वाले दल और नेता देश के लिए सबसे बड़ा खतरा हैं .इन लोगों ने सत्ता हासिल करने के लिए मुस्लिम जिहादियों से समझोता किया हुआ है जिसमे क्रिस्चन समुदाय के पादरी भी हैं जो धर्म परिवर्तन के काम में अवैध तरीके से लिप्त हैं .ये तथाकथित धर्म धर्मनिरपेक्ष दल और नेता घोर सांप्रदायिक ही नहीं बल्कि ये देश के शत्रु भी हैं .
Tarway, Ap ne Sahi Bhola.
BI, this organization has it’s base in the right of centre mindset. People are here because BJP has generally. although not completely promoted such values. Most of us will want to be here as long as that is the case. If this party moves toward far left I am not sure the strength of even this site will be as it is. My point is, the name of the organization is not that important when compred to the principles it supports. At this point of time, India has to move to the center and stay around there or right.
Congress has beyond doubt has ruled with only a certain section of society’sinterest. Time to look at the country’s interest.
If far right guys start ruling India beyond a reasonable amount of time, people might also support a left wing party to balance it. But now it’s the other way around.
@MK ,
whereas it is true that bjp is generally seen as a far right to centre (depending where in the political spectrum viewer is located) but bjps policy should strive to be pragmatic and not guided by right or left considerations.
“right wing” politics meant putting forward policies which are aimed towards promoting private business and “left wing” politics meant policies for social welfare.
in this way “right and left” are political ideas that are not exactly applicable in the current world scenario and least applicable to india.
the exact difference between bjp and congress is not defined in the context of right and left politics but in terms of honesty and dishonesty,selflessness and opportunism ,unifying and divisive politics. many of us would rather been happy if congress was a left wing or center left party than being a evil party as it is now.
Hi Dev, While I completely agree with the differentiators you mentioned, I would still hold that Right of Center principles like Free market policies, privatization, Creative Capitalism, muscular foreign policy, low interst rate low tax policies, small Government and govt spending are very relavant to India. Probably I would put it as Liberalism vs conservatism on some aspects rather than Left vs Right.
we support BJP because it has all ways supported and brought people who worked for with National intrest and further who told how International peace can be brought. I remember Shri Atal ji’s speach in UNO in which he asked the world to think about enviornment or it will be too late. I do not remember the date but i heared it live. It do what it say in national intrest. It has taken care of most of the people who are working for the people in far and remote areas and hounered them thoug they may be of any religion . But Yes it has taken the courage to punish people who are working against nation, trying to disturb the National Peace and National Honour.It has always taken a path of truth. So we love it and this is what Bharat stands for. It gave us a vison of Golden Quadrangle. It gave a vison of Linking rivers, vision of road link with other nations. It has given us a vision of peaceful Asia and the world. We had given it a very short period and it gave us these many thing. Had we given it more we could have Great.
No doubt we have achived better but not to the mark. worst is also seen when we talk of other party. They say they had good Leaders who thought for the National Intrest. Yes in deed but why were they killed ? Who killed them ? Who provOked them to KIll ? (was it national or international) it is just like a mistry book . why should we not know ? after all we are people of this country. why is it that we are not treated as we should be treated after all we are citizen of this world. we have paid the price therefore we have full right for it. If i have done wrong i should be punished but before that i should be informed that what is right and what is wrong.
This is why we want BJP to come Because India Deserves Better. we request them to select candidates who deserves to lead and not any relative so that people can easily vote for him.
Ohm shanti shanti shanti
Long live India and Indian democreacy AAMIN!
NDA has provided a very good governance from 1999 to 2004 except with few exceptions. It definitely helped India to overcome poverty, illiteracy. Still much need to be done . Hope BJP will pull all the strings to come back to power.
@ SKG-ji.. this is wht i have been harping on.. why do we have to hope that a certain party comes to power.. isnt it blind support.. and isnt blind support equal or very near to equal of sycophancy.. why not wish that the best party of 2014 win.. may be a new party will emerge.. may be cong will be a better one then.. or may be bjp will reform itself.. but 2014 is still a long way and anything can happen till then..
STOP SUPPORTING AND DEFENDING POLITICAL PARTIES PLEASE.. START THINKING ABOUT NATIONAL INTEREST…
agreed that nda provided a good rule in 1999-2004.. but will it be the same team in 2014 as well??? how can you be so sure… lets wait at least till 2013, so that we know who is better suited.. please think about betterment of our country.. let parties win or lose.. nation should win..
Arjun-ji.. hope i sound “sense” to you now.. or hope you can show some tolerance towards my “nonsense” of showing concern towards the country more than stupid political parties..
@BI
Wow, Noble thoughts and words indeed. I am a lesser mortal. Please bless me with your knowledge about how to make our country better. Please tell me how a democratically elected government can come without the so called “stupid” political parties. Please tell me how to think about national interest.
Lastly, please create a forum where we can sit and think about national interest
I will be the first one to join in…
Thanks Mohan.. at least there is one person who cares about national interest, rather than bending over backwards for these idiotic parties.. (other than me of course..
).. regarding forums with national interest, i am yet to find one, but let us do a search, and post our results here..
and hey you are not a lesser mortal.. just a newly enlightened soul.. keep it up dear boy.. cheers..
Oh BI, Thanks for the kind words. Let us keep our search and comments offline as this forum ( (un) fortunately) belongs to the Friends of BJP. So let us not waste their time and space on such noble thoughts. Let us take a vow that these will be our last comments on this forum.
Oh yes for your info…there is a site called NationaInterest.in and there is a blog called offstumped in there who is also (unluckily for you/us) supporting the BJP as he thinks BJP is a party with a difference. So not many takers for us there too…How damned are we…
the person masquerading under the “the biggest intellectual” id in the comments above is a pakistani out here to create trouble.
the person masquerading under the “the biggest intellectual” id in the comments above is a pakistani out here to create trouble.
ignore the a%&*hole.
It is really hard to find out the nationality and their loyality of the people who comment here. BI, this is a friendsofBJP website and people who want to support BJP have full freedom to support it.
BI, I have written inumerable comments on why we support BJP and I don’t think it is required to keep on posting the same comments again and again.
Regarding national interest, Congress is least worried about it and they just want to stay in power by allowing illegal immigrants from enemy countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan in the name of secularism. In the name of secularism they will sell Indian interests to the interests of enemy countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh.It is least worried about Tibet and it is least worried about Arunachal Pradesh.
THE BJP MPs MUST STRATEGISE TO FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL THE LIBERHAN COMMISSION AND ACTION TAKEN REPORT ON BABRI DEMOLITION CASE WHICH WOULD BE PLACE IN PARLIAMENT ON THE FIRST DAY OF WINTER SESSION IN NOVEMBER2009. THE UPA AFTER HAVING TO FACE A SET BACK ON PAKISTAN STATEMENT AND THE JUDGES’ ASSET BILL IN BUDGET SESSION WOULD TAKE A REVENGE TO PIN DOWN BJP IN PARLIAMENT BY PLACING THE LIBERHAN REPORT.
BJP MUST TRAIN ITS SPEAKERS IN PARLIAMENT AND GIVE EXTENSIVE MATERIAL TO DEFEAT THE UPA BY LOGIC AND REASON OF THE CASE AND PLANS SHOULD BE INITIATED JUST NOW.
well well well.. then again.. this is funny.. you agree with my thoughts, i am a patriotic nationalist.. if not i am a spammer, a paki.. when i was talking about national interest, i was referreng to INDIA, my sweethearts… not any nation on the face of the earth… hope this clears..
Mohanji/SKGji- I know that this is a friends of bjp site.. the name of the site in itself is a little too obvious… but thats what i am questioning.. why… again the question is not who you are supporting and the rationale.. but WHY SHOULD YOU “BLINDLY AND LOYALLY” support ANY.. read again… ANY party…
since you guys havnt got the logic behind my question.. let me make it simpler for you to understand…
there was a jan sangh, then bjp under vajpayee and advani.. then under only advani… and in very near future the mantle is going to change hands… its not the party that is imp.. its the people behind it.. also the ideas/idealogies.. but with people, ideas/id’gies change my dears… so it is ridiculous to say “may bjp win in 2014″ unless you know how it turns out in 2014… or what will be the circumstances in that period…
also are you going to support the same party for all coming elections forever???? be it any assembly, municipality, panchayat, local bodies, clubs, co-operative banks etc etc etc.. without even bothering to find out what the credentials of the candidates are… or how a particular team of a particular village is suited to run the panchayat.. may be in some places congress is better.. in others ncp… or tdp.. or cpi or whatever…
this kind of blind supporting of a party and creation of “suckers-of-party” does not suit all you well intended souls…and thats not healthy for a democracy.. and certainly not for india.. thats what i am harping about.. hope it is clear now…
We dont support BJP blindly. We support because whenever and wherever it is in power it does in the national interest. if it even gets 10 years continuous mandate it can bring the nationalism EU nations(France,Germany etc) have. These nations have continuously faced the US by choosing products made by their companies. They even have united to form EU and aligned policies of sharing intelligence and respecting each other sovereignty.
We believe and we have confidence and thats not blind that if BJP comes to power it would have changed india to a developed nation by 2020 which looks bleak as congress through minorities always thinking about their self interest will push india back again by pursuing policies which are equivalent of selling the national interest.
BI so i don’t think we support BJP blindly. We support because we have reason to support it and taking about other parties(ncp,cpi) first try going through their manifestos and you will come to know that a sensible and the biggest intellectual
like you would never support.
Anyway try reading Amit’s article again and try discussing something related to that. That would be making some sense and showing some intellectualness rather than arguing and harping on sycophnacy and blind support.
Good luck to do that and hope sense will prevail.
@BI
I understand that you are more concerned about the national interest than the future of a political party. But, it is kinda untrue to call these poor souls sycophants. IMO most of these guys are honestly interested in seeing India do well and I don’t see much problems (except a few) with their intentions. The problem here is that some of these guys have decided that only a party with the lineage of Jan Sangh can do it (as if that was written in k***n, I apologize if I hurt any souls here).
@All
Let me first declare that I voted for BJP in last elections (I probably stand a better chance of a fair audition after the statement). Why don’t you guys put your energy in improving BJP or is it already perfect? I can see hundreds of problems that undermine the chances of BJP in the next elections too.
Criminalization: Come to UP and I will show you that if not 100%, at-least 80% MP’s are criminals. In a recent case a bodyguards of a gangster MP of BJP shot dead a man in UP. It is all nothing but a matter of ego. Why does that criminal still enjoy the membership of the party? Do we need support of such rogue criminals to take India forward?
Moral High Ground: This is what BJP was once known for. I can’t seem to find this anywhere in today’s BJP. Probably, they have forgotten about it. How can people retain their posts even under grave charges? Why don’t these guys come clean on criminal activities of it’s associate groups? How can ABVP members accused of killing a professor in MP walk free? It all happened in full public view. Instead of suspending them from the organization, government did all it could to get the accused out of all this. Is killing your guru, a part of Indian Culture? How can they have a party full of brats be called a party of discipline.
I don’t claim that any other party is better or worse. But, we should accept that BJP has it’s share of problems. And if we are truly friends of BJP, then we should work at identifying those problems and resolving them. Just turning a blind eye wouldn’t work. Before asking others to vote for BJP, why don’t we ask BJP to do away with criminals?
BI, there is some logic and reasoning behind us supporting BJP at the national level for the national elections. No body is blindly supporting BJP. There are reasons for supporting it. For 600 years India was under slavery either to Mughals or to British and this slavery now continues in the form of Congress dynasty. This slavery can only be stopped by a Hindu nationalist party like BJP.
BI, you are wrongly assuming that we are blindly supporting BJP. Stop your bullying.
Amit Srivastava, you are referring to the Azamgarh incident regarding the criminalization of BJP. We need to know the full details and the statement of the sitting MP from BJP whose body guards shot some body belonging to Islamic council of Azamgarh. I am not supporting this incident but I am just saying we shouldn’t jump into conclusions without knowing the full details of the incident. Azamgarh is notorious for terrorism and no wonder such a incident didn’t happen out of nowhere. There must be sufficient provoking and threatening on both sides .
BI,
People support a party whose ideology appeals to them. They believe that the nation should go in a certain direction and feel that a certain party is better equipped to accomplish that. Hence they support that party. I dont see that as being opposed to national interest. Let me give an example.
It is well known that Congress the champion of secularism appeases minorities. Some people may not agree with that and say that majority community should be also be taken care of. They may believe that BJP is better equipped to do that and may support BJP. How does that go against national interest?
Nobody in BJP leadership is serious about defeating congress, they are just fighting with their own egoes and vested interests. Now they are after Vasundhara Raje. What are they upto?
Anshuman, why should any one protect Vasundhara Raje for badly handling Rajasthan. She has totally failed to atleast get public support as a good C.M .
biggest intellectual is indeed a congress chamcha.
i agree, this dude seems either a congress guy or a pakistani.
पाकिस्तानी और कांग्रेसी में कोई अंतर नहीं
आप लोगों की प्रतिक्रिया से यह बात स्पस्ट हो जाती है की एक पाकिस्तानी और एक कांग्रेसी में कोई अंतर नहीं .जब कांग्रेस के बारे में लोगों की ऐसी सोच है तो कांग्रेस को राष्ट्रीय दल कहना बेमानी है.
@skg
My place is very close to Azamgarh and I know that it is definitely one of the hotbeds of crime, hawala and terrorism. But the matter of the fact is that the MP involved is a known gangster and that there was a loss of human life there. Is there meaning of moral responsibility and ethics lost?
Also skg, you simply ignored all my other grievances. What’s your take on the Prof Sabarwal’s murder case?
For all the BJP supporters who still think BJP a party of difference, see the fun circus happening in Rajastan.
4/5 of elected MLAs support Vasundhara to be their leader, however the leaders who failed to steer the party to victory (LKA, RNS) want to make her a scapegoat, while they still hang on, a party of difference has become truly different for different levels of leaders.
I agree with Krishna Tarway. Congress supporters and members in India are all Hindu-hating Pakistanis.
ram a, just hang on. BJP is not a dynasty party and you will see these kind of things in it. I am confident that some solution will be found in the crisis that is happening in it.
Amit, if the MP is responsible for the shooting he will be punished by the law and eventually BJP may take some disclipinary action against him. It did take action against other MPs and MLAs in the past.
As suspected, the ulema council has indulged in some killing of BJP leader. See the news below.
The murder of a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader sparked off violence and tension Monday in Uttar Pradesh’s Azamgarh district, police said.
Agitated over the killing of Bhairav Singh (50), who was shot dead Sunday, a large number of party workers took to the streets and targeted several private and public vehicles in parts of Azamgarh district, police added.
“In the wake of the series of protests, we have deployed additional security in various areas of Azamgarh,” district police chief Ramit Sharma told IANS over telephone.
Singh, who was also a Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) activist, was shot dead by two motorcycle-borne men, just a few metres away from his house. Even as the reason for the murder is yet to be ascertained, police suspect the incident could be the fallout of political rivalry.
Acting on the complaint of Singh’s family, police have registered a case against two men of the Raidapur area in Azamgarh.
“The two are absconding. We are carrying out raids in various areas to nab them,” said Sharma.
Azamgarh is about 300 km from Lucknow.
Another incident of Ulema council’s involvement in Anti-national activity.
Five members of the Ulema Council have been booked for dishonouring the national flag during a public meeting in Uttar Pradesh’s Azamgarh district, police said Friday.
The members of the Ulema Council made ‘insulting comments’ about the tricolour in the meeting in the Purarani area of Azamgarh Tuesday, some 300 km from Lucknow, police said.
The district administration Thursday ordered a case to be lodged at the Mubarakpur police station after seeing the video footage of the meeting, police inspector Bhupendra Singh told IANS over phone.
Insulting the national flag is an offence that attracts a maximum sentence of three years with fine, police said.
The Ulema Council has announced its candidates for seven Lok Sabha seats in Uttar Pradesh: Ambedkar Nagar, Kanpur, Azamgarh, Lalganj, Jaunpur, Machlishahr and Lucknow.
@skg
If I assume all that is true (and it can very well be so), can it really justify the shooting by the MP’s men? Come on! He is a lawman and he is supposed to follow the constitutional ways. I would plead you that please don’t condone such acts. These are the very acts which have got us to these low levels.
Also, there is a difference between ethics and legality. Someone may walk free because he could not be proven guilty in a court of law. Can you get me convicted if I kick my parents off my house? I can cheat my customers by use of clever language and still remain free. But, isn’t all this unethical? Don’t I have a right to ask for for some level of ethical standards in public service?
Everyone in the area knows that Ramakant Yadav is a goon, but BJP would like to hide behind the garb of innocent-till-proven-guilty. That’s what the BJP of today is my dear.
I fail to understand, why the crowd here is so reluctant to accept that there can be problems in BJP and they may be in need of reforms. It just looks to me like some parents who just can’t listen to any of their kids wrongdoings.
Amit, I definitely want the BJP parliamentary committe and the central leader ship to take actions against goons. I definitely want talented people to be inducted into BJP . I definitely want people who can’t deliver to be removed from their posts and services. However, what I expect and want is not how the BJP works. I had been complaining about replacing Rajnath Singh as the president as he failed to deliver U.P and also 2008 elections. I am not supporting him at all. I would like really talented people to work for BJP and get rid of all problems in the party.
I don’t know about Ramakant Yadav so I can’t speak much about him. If he committed a crime punish him.
Also, I am wondering how this ulema council is getting away with all the anti-national activities and how Azamgarh has become a hub of anti-national activtities. What is the U.P government doing to clean this menace ?.
Here is a different version of the story.
Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) general secretary Vinay Katiyar on Friday demanded immediate withdrawal of the criminal case filed against the party MP Ramakant Yadav for violence in Uttar Pradesh’s Azamgarh district.
“The case against our MP should be withdrawn at the earliest and members of the Ulema Council must be booked for resorting to violence,” Katiyar told reporters in Ayodhya in the Faizabad district.
“Our MP has been falsely implicated in the case…in fact, in the fight for supremacy, the Ulema Council opened fire on the cavalcade of our MP and that resulted to the death of their own members,” Katiyar alleged.
Demanding arrests of the Ulema Council members, he said this was not the first time the party’s leaders were attacked. “Anti-social elements often target our leaders. Earlier it was Yogi Adityanath (Gorakhpur MP) and this time it’s Ramakant Yadav,” Katiyar said.
A criminal case was lodged against Yadav, MP from Azamgarh, on Wednesday after a young man died in a clash between the supporters of the Ulema Council and the BJP.
The clash took place in the Phoolpur locality of the district.
“We had organised a rally in the Phoolpur locality and were heading towards the venue in cars. Those accompanying Yadav, who was in his cavalcade behind us, had a brawl with some of our supporters and members, who were walking down,” convener of the Ulema Council Maulana Amir Rashadi had said.
“Yadav’s supporters started firing indiscriminately at us, resulting in the death of a 21-year-old man, Abdul Rehman,” he claimed.
A case under sections 302 (murder) and 307 (attempt to murder) was registered against the MP and others in the Phoolpur police station, police said.
Why is Jaitley, LK Advani giving an tacit support to Vasundhara Raje? Why stand against Rajnath Singh? The difference between present BJP and Congress is in Congress what Gandhis say is FINAL but in BJP no Leader has moral support to be its President whose command is FINAL. The Leadership issue needs to be settled first. Factions and infighting will ruin the party
Wish you all very Happy Independence Day!!
@skg
Good that you feel that there are things in BJP that can be changed for better. Rajnath Singh isn’t too bad a guy. But, his over-ambitiousness is hurting the party and he is not alone in that. As Anshuman pointed out the leadership issue. I too feel that BJP needs to solve the leadership problem asap otherwise factionism can ruin the whole organization.
Though I think that Rajnath Singh should have stepped down after the loss in elections, it would be wrong to not to delve in to the real reasons of loss. In UP at-least there wasn’t much difference among the candidates of BSP, SP and BJP as far as their criminal-backgrounds are concerned. But, then BSP and SP are parties which are involved in caste-based politics, while BJP’s potential voter base is the middle-class intellectual junta. There is no way to convince this class to vote for a party which stands with criminals and goons. As good as Rajnath may be, he cannot deliver his best as long as he is standing on the crutches of these criminals. IMO BJP should stop thinking about short-term gains and do away with all the criminals. The good thing is that Congress did a lot better than expected with lesser support from criminal groups. I wish BJP can take the lead and complete the whole hog by eliminating all the criminals (at-least the publicly known ones.
An excellent piece highlighting the current issues inAgriculture sector which are a result of some of the policies of Congress. It covers one of my good pals, Janardhana Swamy, who now is a Chitradurga MP[BJP].
Here is the link
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/city/mysore/TNN5-agritimMP-vouches-for-alternate-employment-to-farmers/articleshow/4878942.cms
Happy Independene day to all the folks !!
First of all the way Rajnath Singh is working is
not all effective. I don’t understand why is giving tickets to people with criminal background. Also, the issue with his standoff with Jaitley who is a talented person is also not well pereceived by the supporters and public. He needs to go. I didn’t understand how this guy became the president of the party.
वशुंधरा राजे के मामले में पार्टी को ज्यादा माथा पच्ची नहीं करनी चाहिए .यह बात मैंने पूर्व में भी कही थी की हार पर पार्टी आपस में सर फुटव्वल न करे तो अच्छा है .क्योंकि हार के कारण नेता से ज्यादा दुसरे अन्य कारण रहे हैं .पार्टी की हार का कारण नेता नहीं हैं .क्योंकि उन्होंने पार्टी को जिताने में भरपूर मेहनत की थी .आपस में माथा पच्ची करने से अच्छा है पार्टी को मजबूत करने के उपाय करें जहाँ पार्टी मजबूत नहीं है .दूसरा बीजेपी को अन्य छोटे दलों पर अपनी निर्भरता ख़त्म करनी होगी .पार्टी यूं पी और दक्षिण के राज्यों पर ध्यान पर अपना ध्यान केन्द्रित करे .जो कमियां पार्टी के संचालन में है वह दूर करे और सुवय्वस्थित तरीके से काम करे .
काम करने का जो तरीका नरेन्द्र मोदी जी ने अपने राज्य में अपनाया है या विकसित किया है उसी तरीके से बीजेपी की केंद्रीय इकाई को भी काम करना चाहिए .
@ AMIT SRIVASTAVA
यूं पी का जहाँ तक सवाल है बीजेपी को चाहिए की यूं पी का राज्य अध्यक्ष किसी युवा नेता को बनाया जाये .और यूं पी के गौरव शाली इतिहास और परंपरा को पुनर्स्थापित करने के लिए अपनी विचारधारा के समर्थक बुद्धिजिवयों को साथ लेकर जन जागरण अभियान चलाना चाहिए और वहां की जनता को यह बताने का प्रयास करना चाहिए की जाती में बंटकर यूं पी का भला नहीं हो सकता .यूं पी का बंटाधार जातिवादी राजनीती के कारण ही हुआ है .मेरा यह पूर्ण विश्वास है की बहुत से लोगों का साथ बीजेपी को मिलेगा जो बीजेपी के समर्थक नहीं भी हैं उनका भी .क्योंकि मेरा यह मानना है की यूं पी के जागृत जनता जातिवादी राजनीती से उकता चुकी है और यह बात उनके भी समझ में आने लगी है की एस पी , बी एस पी और कांग्रेस की (क्योंकि कांग्रेस भी जातिवादी राजनीती से अछूती नहीं है वह भी दलित वर्ग को आकृषित करने के टोटके यूं पी आजकल कर रही है) जातिवादी राजनीती यूं पी का सत्यानाश कर रही है .
यूं पी में करने के लिए बीजेपी के पास बहुत कुछ है लेकिन वह कुछ कर नहीं रही है .यूं पी में बीजेपी को कोई न कोई अभियान चलने की जरुरत है . यूं पी पर बीजेपी को विशेष ध्यान देना चाहिए .यूं पी में बीजेपी को भ्रष्टाचार ,आंतकवाद ,कानून व्यवस्था ,जातिवादी राजनीति ,गंगा की सफाई आदि प्रमुख मुद्दे उठाने चाहिए .
As a party follower, I can put my head on the line and say that the discipline, moral high ground, quality of leaders and the buzz about the party are not what they used to be in the 90’s. When I get really nostalgic, I watch the videos of maha adhiveshan of 1995 held in Mumbai and hear leaders like Atalji, Govindacharya, Jagmohan, Pramod Mahajan etc. The current crop does not come close. There are very few organizational men in tha party compared to the 90’s and that is a major issue when the party seeks to expand itself in the Southern and Eastern parts of India.
The BIG WRONG with Indian Political System what I find after 62 years of Independence is that once a Political Party comes to power they just cannot get out of their PARTY POLITIC MINDSET. In parliament we see all Congress MPs taking credit for their achievements as achievements of Congress and same with any other party.
I feel once the elections are over and a party is in power it becomes GOVERNMENT OF INDIA and the party should not take credit of any achievements as that leads to alienate the governement from the society and the people. No party should take credit for government’s functioning as it is the Government of the people by the people for the people and not a political party.
Fully agree with you Anshuman. Congress has the habit of taking all the credit the government of India is doing.
From my observations and close study of the BJP, I cannot endorse it anymore as a party with a Difference. I feel BJP lost all its vision and plot with the retirement of Atalji.
To me since Independence of India the BJP run NDA under Atalji presented to the people of India one of the BEST GOVERNENCE with some exemplary and visionary work in public domain. Even the successive UPA governments till today are encashing on some of those policies and projects.
I always felt those exemplary and visionary work done towards presenting to the people of India a TRUE FUNCTIONING GOVERNENCE first in history of Independent India should have made the BJP - “A PARTY WITH A DIFFERENCE”.
Unfortunately, the leadership and workers in BJP lost the plot of the embeded vision in its work while in govenrment by selling it as ‘SHINING INDIA’.
It was never HINDUTVA which could make BJP or any other political outfit ‘A PARTY WITH A DIFFERENCE’. That was the misunderstanding in the mindset of the BJP leaders that they continued with HINDUTVA and RAM TEMPLE issues and never sold their RECORD BREAKING AND VISIONARY GOVERNENCE to the people. They lost their way after taking first steps in the right path. They got diverted in their minds and went back to the roads they once had walked in early nineties.
That was a blunder and the country lost a political leadership which had the potential to change the face of India and its people.
Today it has become to retrace those paths as time has passed and memories had dimmed and peoples mind is occupied with Congress as it had been for the 52 years out of 62 since Independence.
BJP was able to dethrone the Gandhis and the Congress for bringing the change India deserved but was unable to sustain it for its own blunder.
Now, the Gandhis’ Congress back in power the people will sustain them and deprive India of the change it once saw a glimpse under NDA.
Congress is in the blood of this country for reasons unknown and once in power they are not easy to be dethroned. It was Indira’s blunder in Emergency that shook the base of congress in 77.
Can the country wait so long for the change??
BJP failed to understand this question and seems to have lost the answer to it in quest of its patented ideology which has no link to governence.
BJP also I feel ignored some of their most talented personalities in Murli Manohar Joshi, Jaswant Singh, Arun Shourie and even if not a BJP Member a person like Brajesh Mishra. They should have been in the core team for building the party after Atalji. But for reasons unknown people like Sushma Swaraj, Rajnath Singh and Arun Jaitley were roped in who had no concept of building the party and giving it a thrust towards positive building process standing on the ground of Indian ethos, culture and history.
However, time has ran out and it is a too long a road to retrace.
One wonders why BJP lost all of it having the taste of power? Only time would test its relevance in present and future
I feel the main problem with BJP is that lots of ageing leaders have developed an ambition of tasting power before they retire. I sincerely feel that BJP should do away with the concept of seniority and have some young leader take up the reigns. The seniors should take up the role of grandfathers as in a family setting. They should understand that not everyone can get to become the PM and also that it wasn’t for the lure of kursi that they entered the public service.
IMO the American culture of allowing only one shot for the top-job should be sincerely looking in to also. If you are unsuccessful, you can’t run again. No one in USA can unsuccessfully run for President twice. Al Gore is happy sitting as a senator, so is John Kerry and McCain too. They will never again get a chance to run for the President again.
skg,
about your media comment. Almost all of our media companies are sourced from either Western or Arab sources. Why do you think they will care for core Indian people?
-MK
MK, I hate Indian media. I don’t like them at all. They are not neutral. They are arrogant . They are sold out to congress. They bring up issues of minorities which are not at all issues.
They also play lot of minority appeasement tactics. They go into Hindu Bashing which is totally objectionable.
I have taken it upon myself that I will change 10 of my relatives to only watch/read papers and tv channels which are owned/operated by Indians w/o the interruption from any of these Arab/Western sources. That would be the least I could do.
You guys should watch Indianmediawatch on youtube which attempts to balance the left bias of these media folks.
This time in recent 2009 elections, my father, uncle, my grand father and my cousins voted for BJP after my advice. I don’t want my votes or my family votes to go to Arabi congress party. Ofcourse, I rarely watch TV these days as I see most of the news on the websites and watch movies through my selected service.
I think the party is in a self destruction mode big time. Without taking names, I think there are too many losers in the top party leadership. All that has happened is they have lost an election, why not accept/assign responsibility (not to individuals but to strategies) and become a positive force once again. There are enough broad shouldered men in the party who can accept responsibility. Come to think of it over the next 5 years the party may lose more state elctions due to the sheer weight of anti-incumbency and if this how the leaders behave, I am sad to say that BJP will be a thing of the past.
hey guys r ya outta ur mind..
cum to think ov it
r u indians by ny chance…
coz u seem to me more bjp oriented dan to d betterment ov d nation..
such a gr8 nation lyk ours require unity
our motto is
unity in diversity bro…
Hey Krishna, you are the only one in your mind, so please tell us what to do and more importantly first practice what you want us to do.
Thanks for your understanding!
Ok guys…Here is something important. I was following Mdm Sagarika Ghose (CNN-IBN) on her twitter channel and this is what she has to say to us…
“globalisation and economic progress will destroy the BJP, it will be reduced to ranting bigots on the internet”
You can check it out on the channel too. Now the question is does anyone from the BJP care about whats going on in the media? I cant imagine how a spokesperson can go and discuss with a journalist who has such strong negative view of the party.
खूब लिखो लेकिन पार्टी छोडो
आजकल बीजेपी के अन्दर एक नया फैशन चल गया है किताब लिखने की .खूब किताब लिखे जा रहे हैं .लेकिन इन नेताओं में इतनी भी जिम्मेदारी का अहसास नहीं है की यदि कोई विवादास्पद बात लिखी जायगी जो पार्टी की विचारधारा के विपरीत बात हो तो इसका क्या विपरीत प्रभाव पार्टी पर पड़ेगा .लेकिन इन सब बातों की चिंता किये बगैर नेता किताब लिखने में व्यस्त हैं और ऐसी ऐसी बातें लिख जाते हैं जो पार्टी की विचार धारा से मैच नहीं करती .नतीजा यह होता है की विरोधियों को आलोचना करने का मौका मिल जाता है और एक मुद्दा भी जो अंततः पार्टी को नुक्सान ही पहुंचाती है .मेरा कहना यह है की किताब लिखें और खूब लिखें लिखना सबका अधिकार है , किताब लिखने से कोई किसी को रोक नहीं सकता .लेकिन यदि किताब लिखने का इतना ही शौक है तो कृपया पार्टी से पद त्याग कर किताब लिखें और खूब लिखें .
हांलाकि की नैतिकता और मर्यादा का तकाजा तो यह है की किसी राजनितिक दल का नेता हुए किसी भी नेता को चाहे वो पार्टी में हों या न हों पार्टी की विचारधारा के विरूद्व बातें लिखने का अधिकार नहीं है .
I am of the view that what Jaswant Singhji had opined in his book ‘Jinnah- India, Partition ..’ are subjectively correct. The young generation of today’s India which comprise over 60 percent of the population below 35 their age, know very little about the exact facts which occurred just before and after 1947. They are taught in their schools Indian History which which is censored and edited to a great extent to suit the agenda and ethos of the Congress who ruled India for 31 years uniterrupted since Independence. There were roles played by some of the Congress leaders during that time which if exposed would have embarassed the party. So there was a deliberate effort made from the very beginning to hide some important facts and events which took place during Independence from the next generation in free India for which the History text books were re-written with intended omissions of those events.
There were many facts and events to which Gandhiji had a different view but was over-ruled by congress led under Nehru. One such event was the Partition and adoption of the British’ Two Nation Theory. Gandhiji was against the whole concept till the end but was coerced to concede to Nehru. Nehru’s ambition for power and his disillusionment and a soft corner towards Lady Mountbatten misguided his intellect to fall a prey to the trap laid by her husband and partition did happen. Nehru also similarly took Kashmir issue to UNO on advice of his British mentor. Such blunders are known facts for people who live that era but are not known to this young generation of today as the Indian History text books taught in their schools have erased all of those controversial episodes from its contents.
Jaswantji do only point out some of those events only. It is upto the youth of today to search for answers if they are really interested to do so being a true Indian.
I strongly feel every citizen must know his or her roots and it is best taught by the history of their motherland. One must search for answers deep into the ocean of Indian History and find the answers to know the truth embedded in there about the birth of our motherland India.
देश के लोगों के साथ धोखा
जसवंत सिंह ने सरदार पटेल के बारे में जो लिखा है यदि उनके अनुसार यह बात सत्य है तो फिर वो बीजेपी में क्या कर रहे हैं ? जो पार्टी सरदार पटेल को अपना आदर्श मानती है और जिसे जसवंत सिंह जी बँटवारे के लिए जिम्मेदार मानते हैं .तो नैतिकता के हिसाब से उन्हें तो बीजेपी में होना ही नहीं चाहिए था . इसका क्या मतलब निकाला जाये की सरदार पटेल के बारे में सत्य जानते हुए भी बीजेपी अब तक वो बने हुए हैं , तो क्या अब तक वो लोगों को धोखा दे रहे थे ? और सिर्फ सत्ता का सुख भोगने के लिए बीजेपी में हैं .भाई जसवंत सिंह साहब अब आप पार्टी छोड़ दें . क्योंकि आपने पार्टी की विचारधारा के विपरीत अपनी किताब में बातें लिखी हैं .पार्टी में रहते हुई आप ये सब बातें नहीं लिख सकते .हांलाकि की नैतिकता और मर्यादा का तकाजा तो यह है की किसी राजनितिक दल का नेता हुए किसी भी नेता को चाहे वो पार्टी में हों या न हों पार्टी की विचारधारा के विरूद्व बातें लिखने का अधिकार नहीं है .नेताओं को यह नहीं भूलना चाहिए की वो नेता हैं कोई इतिहासकार या लेखक नहीं .पार्टी में होते हुए या पार्टी में न होते हिए उन्हें पार्टी की विचारधारा के विपरीत कुछ भी लिखने का अधिकार वो खो देते हैं .उन्हें यदि लेखक बनना है तो नेतागिरी न करें .
बीजेपी के भीतर यदि अब भी कोई जिन्ना प्रेमी नेता या लेखक हैं तो कृपया पार्टी छोड़ दें .
चिन्तक बैठक या टाइम पास ?
लोक सभा चुनाव के बाद बीजेपी को जो करना चाहिए था वो न करके चिंतन बैठक की तैय्यारी में हैं .लगता है बीजेपी के बुजुर्ग नेताओं के पास अब कोई काम नहीं है . वो इस प्रकार की चिंतन बैठक कर सिर्फ अपना और लोगों का टाइम पास करते हैं .
@कृष्ण तरवे
उत्तर प्रदेश को आवश्यकता है आर्थिक विकास की, बिजली की, साफ़ सुथरी सरकार की और भय मुक्त समाज इत्यादि की. सपा और बसपा से तो उम्मीद करना भी बेमानी है. और भाजपा के पास इन
सबके बारे में सोचने के लिए समय ही नहीं है. भाजपा ने अपने ५ साल के कार्यकाल में ऐसा कुछ भी नहीं किया जिससे जनता को कोई भरोसा हो.
मेरे अनुसार भाजपा को नकारात्मक राजनीति छोड़कर यह बहस करना चाहिए कि कैसे देश की आर्थिक उन्नति हो, कैसे जनता की स्थिति मजबूत किया जा सके. चिंतन बैठक में अगर कांग्रेस को गाली देने की जगह अगर औद्योगिक और आर्थिक विकास पर कोई चिंतन करें तो उत्तम होगा. और लगातार लम्बे समय तक सकारात्मक बातें ही करें तो देश में भाजपा की काया कल्प हो सकती है. नहीं तो वर्तमान हालत में तो मुझे सागरिका घोस जी की बात सच होती ही दिख रही है.
The problem in BJP is there are a handful of members who never want to accept the truth and just continue with their hypocritical views which they call as their ideology that has failed the party time and again and if allowed to continue would force people to dump the party.
Though Sardar Patel united many states of independent India, and he is held in high esteem by all Indians for his untiring effort, it foolish to deny the truth that he did actually join Nehru to convince Gandhiji to accept the two nation theory which ultimately resulted in the partition.
It is beyond one’s understanding why BJP feels so hurt to criticize Patel when it is a true fact. How does speaking the truth make him a lesser idol? BJP must learn to accept what is true unlike congress which always run away from it.
@ ANSHUMAN
यदि आपकी कही बातें मैं सत्य मान लूं जो सरदार पटेल के बारे में आपने कही हैं तो इस हिसाब से सरदार पटेल को आदर्श नेता बीजेपी को नहीं मानना चाहिए .जो नेता विभाजन के लिए जिम्मेदार हो और जिसने नेहरु को इस तरह की सलाह दी हो उसे भला बीजेपी क्यों आदर्श मान बैठी है ? इसका मतलब यह निकला की सरदार पटेल विवादास्पद रहे हैं ? तब तो सवाल सीधे बीजेपी पर ही उठती है .
जब ऊँगली बीजेपी पर उठती है या जिसने बीजेपी पर ही उंगली उठा दी हो तो ऐसे नेता के विरूद्व बीजेपी को अनुशासन के हिसाब से कार्यवाही कर सकती है.
Amit,
I am afraid you are incorrect when you made the following statement.
1. There is nothing stopping someone from running for the top job if they are unsuccessful. As a matter of fact McCain ran against Bush in 2000 and failed to get his party nomination. In 2008 he got his party nomination but failed against Obama.
2. Gore is not a senator. He is a common man but does have some influence in his party.
In my opinion it is hard to compare the US setup with India. But I agree with you that younger leaders need to encouraged given that more and more young voters will be in India.
I openly admire the facts presented by Jaswant Singh in his book . Most of the facts he presented are true and because of the dishonesty of congress India is suffering with Hindu-Muslim riots and problems. If Congress is really honesty about the partition they wouldn’t have hidden the true motives of Nehru who is a big culprit in India-Pakistan partition. I don’t know exactly how Jinnah played the game and I can’t comment on him. As a Indian, I have researched enough on this subject and I found Nehru playing a dubious role in the partition. Also, his book Discovery of India has some false stories .
Why not encourage some rich folks to start a conservative Indian TV channel like the US Fox news?
Among major Indian English language newspapers I think Pioneer is the only English language paper that comes close. The Hindu is very left leaning. They would not want to publish a letter that I wrote once against aggressive religious conversions.
Sagharika Ghose, Prannoy Roy are the most adament and arrogant faces in Indian Media today. They think that they are well educated and talk like Americans and they think that they can judge whatever way they want about BJP.
Sagarika Ghose is sold out to Congress. Some body in BJP should protest this arrogant behaviour of this lady. She has potrayed BJP very badly to the public in english Media. So is Prannoy Roy . His love for the Italian lady is overwhelming that he can’t really see the true political situation of India.
Mohan, Can you please post the entire article of Sagarika Ghose from Twitter. Let the friends of BJP go through her comments and get an idea on what kind of damage she is doing to the party. She wrote some thing on Vasundhara Raje too. What is LKA and Rajnath Singh doing on this issues ?. Both of them have no idea on what is hurting the party.
One thing I never understood about Gandhiji is why did he always listen to Nehru . Since he had some authority , he could have refuted the two nation theory . He could have taken lessons from that of Abraham Lincoln . In comparison to Abraham Lincoln, I personally feel, Gandhiji failed as a political leader. This is what Jaswant Singh books says too . Didn’t understand why BJP is really shying away from accepting the facts of the history instead of denying them.
skg it is a one liner at then top of her twitter page. Just google the name and twitter and you will get to it.
@kho: I admit that I was inaccurate to call Al Gore a senator. In fact he is a former senator. About McCain, he ran for Presidential elections only once, in 2008 elections and most probably for the last time. In 2000, he didn’t actually run for Presidential elections but for the party nomination. The point I was trying to convey is that, such a culture provides hope for deserving candidates that they can rise to the top and do so quickly. Seniority should not come in the way and seniors should learn to move on and give way to the deserving. Current setup encourages one-upmanship even among the seniors and it hurts a lot.
@skg: I completely subscribe to your views that BJP should not shy away from the facts. Correcting oneself doesn’t weaken but strengthens. It is good for everyone to know the facts and learn from the mistakes made.
ये खोटे नेता
जसवंत सिंह भले ही एक लेखक के तौर पर और इतिहासकार के तौर पर अपनी किताब के साथ इन्साफ किया हो लेकिन उन्हें नहीं भूलना चाहिए की वो एक पार्टी के नेता भी हैं .जिस पार्टी ने उन्हें प्रसिद्धि और नाम दिया हो उस पार्टी की विचारधारा के विरूद्व उन्हें कोई बात अपनी किताब में नहीं लिखनी चाहिए थी . उन्होंने एक लेखक के तौर पर इन्साफ भले ही किया हो लेकिन नेता के तौर पर वह पार्टी के साथ नाइंसाफी कर गए .इसलिए नैतिक तौर पर वह खरे नहीं कहे जा सकते .हम तो इन्हे खोटे ही कहेंगे
Does anyone know why the site is not getting updated with new articles?
मैं भी कई दिनों से यही जानना चाह रहा हूँ MK .
@ skg
सागरिका घोष ranting bigots कह कर एक तरह से अपनी खीज ही निकाल रही है –कहते हैं न खिसियानी बिल्ली खम्बा नोचे .
@ skg
सागरिक जैसों के पास कहने के लिए कुछ है भी नहीं सिवाय bigots कहने के——वही घिसा पिटा पुराना राग .
I have a feeling that She may be refering to the commentators who posted against her in the friends of BJP. Why would she “ranting bigots on the internet” ?. Where else people commented against her anti-BJP motives ?
guys, ndtv is at it again. They are showcasing a minority woman not being allowed to wear ascarf. I do not have an issue with that in it-self. However they were supposedly quiet when hindu devotees were not allowed to wear dhotis. It’s page1 story on their site. I am not sure if the whole thing is not a planted story. They are trying to showcase this on Karnataka ever since BJP came to power there. I am from there and I don’t hear anythig like that from people but from only media……..
@ MK
यह खबर मैंने भी देखी थी NDTV में .यह प्लांटेड भी हो सकती है क्योंकि NDTV बीजेपी के विरूद्व काम करने वाले और मुस्लिम साम्प्रदायिकता को बढ़ने वाले लोग हैं.
@ MK
इसी तरह NDTV अपने न्यूज़ पॉइंट के एक प्रोमो में अफज़ल गुरु को न्याय न मिलने की बात करते थे( आजकल वो प्रोमो NDTV ने बंद कर रखा है ) और मुंबई सेंट्रल के प्रोमो में आजकल वे साध्वी प्रज्ञा को सज़ा देने की कामना करते हैं जिसका अपराध अभी तक सिद्ध भी नहीं हुआ है .और जिसके बारे में यह कहा जाता है की वह बेवजह कांग्रेसी नेताओं द्वारा झूठे इल्जाम में फंसाई गयी है सिर्फ मुस्लिमो को खुश करने के लिए .
hey, does anybody have a pointer to detailed map of electoral constituencies, showing each village, town and possibly demographic data.
Jaswant singh expelled. BJP is moving from endanged concerned to critically endangered state. Somedoby told BJP has democracy, eat your words man.
They shudn’t have expelled Jaswant Singh, maybe they sacrificied him to make raje feel good about her eviction!
@ ram
यहाँ बात डेमोक्रेसी की नहीं यहाँ बात विचारधारा की है .यदि कोई विचारधारा पर ही ऊँगली उठा दे जिसके कारण बीजेपी का जन्म हुआ है और पार्टी को कटघरे में खडा कर दे तो उसका इस तरह का हश्र होना स्वाभाविक है .समझे mr.ram आईंदा confuse करने का प्रयास न करें .
जसवंत सिंह जैसे नेता मे इतनी भी समझदारी नहीं है जिनके बाल रुई जैसे झग सफ़ेद हो गए हैं और जिनकी उम्र इतनी हो गयी है की उन्हें क्या लिखना चाहिए और क्या नहीं .उनमे इतनी भी समझदारी नहीं है की पार्टी में रहते हुए उन्हें क्या बातें लिखनी चाहिए और क्या नहीं .पार्टी का बंटाधार करने वाली बातें अपनी किताब में उन्हें नहीं लिखनी चाहिए थी .
पित पत्रकारिता ( yellow journalism) करने वाली मीडिया तो बस जसवंत सिंह के आंसू पोछने में लगी हैं और अनाप-शनाप अपनी ब्रह्म टिपण्णी बीजेपी के खिलाफ कर रही है .
While others may have their opinions, the act of expelling Jaswant Singh shows how morally bankrupt BJP has become. It was a sad day indeed and Jaswant ji’s press conference was very moving.
Does having an opinion on individual constitute ideolology? Does making Jinnah the cause of partition constitute ideology? Shame on the top brass locked up in AC rooms who took this decision. In his personal capacity Jaswant ji has written a book, if party does not agree so be it.
It was a 632 page book which merely put things into perspective and did not carry any strong opinions by Jaswant Singh.
None of the 20 odd people sitting there displaying their macho nature indulging in breastbeating can talk a word about economy or foreign policy except giving rhetorical statements. The 3 knowledgeble people on these issues have been sidelined/expelled. And the powers that be seem to be enjoying the experience of shredding the party into bits.
Those who have the least to lose are taking the most important decisions in the party. Is there someone with spine who can stand up to them?
यदि जसवंत सिंह जी की सरदार पटेल और जिन्ना के बारे में इस तरह की राय थी जो उन्होंने अपनी पुस्तक में लिखी है तो बीजेपी में आये ही क्यों ? यह सवाल तो उनके ऊपर ही उठता है .इसका क्या मतलब निकाला जाये…? वह इतने सालों से बीजेपी को धोखा दे रहे थे और सिर्फ सत्ता का सुख भोगने के लिए उन्होंने बीजेपी ज्वाइन किया था ?
हनुमान से रावण
हनुमान से रावण उन्होंने खुद बनने का काम किया है . भाई जब पार्टी आपको हनुमान मानती थी तो रावण जैसा आपने काम ही क्यों किया ? विवादास्पद बातें लिखकर तो आपने तो भस्मासुर जैसा भी काम किया है .
Krishna ji, I have read portions of the book and no where does he directly or even remotely force his opinion. He merely states facts. Its a kind of thesis work. Also, i dont think everyone in the party has the same line of thinking on every other issue. I dont think this is the real reason for him to be sacked.
As far as enjoying power is concerned, I think its a very unfair allegation. He served the party for more than 30 years, probably longer than some of the buffons sitting in a star hotel in Simla. He was shunted between ministries (so was Yashwant Sinha), he took the blame for Kandahar and always spoke his mind. Only for 6 years was he a minister.
I think the questions he asked after the election loss were very relavant (although he should not have done so in the media). Instead of thinking about these important things the party is wasting time on a little known book on an irrelavant individual. I think Congress will be very happy and celebrate this self destruction by BJP.
In context of recent expulsion of Mr. Jaswant Singh from the party I wanted to know if FoB are going with BJP.
Hi Akshar,
BJP is still the best bet leadership permitting. Also, there are no Center-right alternatives as well. Personally, I will wait until Advani fades away and then see how the party shapes up.
Regards FoB, no one cares about this forum anymore. Atleast there used to be some copy-pasted articles, but even those are not being put up now. All thats happening here is 5-10 people posting comments
@Krishnaji
I don’t think that the ideology of BJP of yesteryears was this narrow-minded. Ideology is defined by ideas like democracy, broad-mindedness, love for peace, cultural integration, security, truth, facts etc and not by names like Sardar Patel, Gandhi or even Jinnah. Reducing ideologies to mere personalities has what has made congress a gandhi-parivar inc.
We should always be open to views for all around and should continuously review ourselves. No party or person is perfect from day one. Accepting a mistake and improving oneself is not a matter of shame.
I too think that it was Raje’s episode + succession-war in BJP which had the axe fall on Jaswant.
Why are you doing this. Arun Jaitley is a greedy person. Jaswant Singh is a great man. Its a shame for BJP to lose him. Down with u Greedy ppl.
@ AMIT & MOHAN
यदि उन्होंने शोध कर कोई बात अपने किताब के माध्यम सी कही है तो तो यह मर्यादा के खिलाफ बात जाती है .आप कोई भी बात पार्टी की विचारधारा के विरूद्व नहीं कर सकते.जहाँ तक आतंरिक डेमोक्रेसी की बात है तो ये सब बातें आप पार्टी के अन्दर भी कर सकते थे .सार्वजनिक तौर पर दस्तावेज की शक्ल में किताब में आप विरोधाभाषी बाते नहीं कर सकते जो पार्टी लाइन से हटकर हो .उधाहरण के तौर पर जब आप किसी कंपनी में काम करते हैं और आप कंपनी की किसी नीति से सहमत नहीं होते हैं तो यह बात आप कंपनी की बैठक में उठाते हैं .भले ही कंपनी आपके विचारों से सहमत हो या न हो .इसका फैसला कंपनी सामूहिक तौर पर करती है की वह आपके विचारों या आईडिया से सहमत है या नही है . यदि आप कंपनी की किसी नीति से सहमत नहीं हैं तो नैतिकता का तकाजा यह है की आप कंपनी ही छोड़ दें .और अगर आप कंपनी नहीं छोड़ सकते तो आप अपने विचार सार्वजनिक नहीं कर सकते .क्योंकि इससे कंपनी की प्रतिष्ठा पर ही आंच आती है .फिर आपको कंपनी बाहर का ही रास्ता दिखा सकती है .यह महज एक उधाहरण के तौर पर आपको समझाने की कोशिश की है .इसे और अन्यथा न लें .
@ AMIT
वशुंधरा राजे मामले से इस एपिसोड का कोई लेना देना नहीं है
मीडिया में जसवंत सिंह को लेकर घडियाली आंसू बहाए जा रहे हैं ,विशेषकर इंग्लिश मीडिया में .एक तो इंग्लिश मीडिया स्वयं में विवादास्पद है .ऐसी मीडिया की टिप्पणियों से प्रभावित न हों .
अभी NDTV देख रहा था मुझे तो ऐसा लग रहा था जैसे प्रणव राय खुद भी रो पड़ेंगे .जसवंत सिंह के प्रति NDTV की हमदर्दी सिर्फ दिखावा है और कुछ नहीं .
Who took the decision to axe Jaswant Singh ?. I think LKA and Rajnath Singh are greatly damaging the party than doing any good. Both of them should resign if they can’t make any good decisions for the party. Both of them are pathetic and shameless creatures bent on staying in power by hook or crook. LKA should have resigned graciously by now and he is totally shameless and hanging on to stay as a leader of apposition. He should have resigned and sacrificed his position to prove that party is greater than an individual. However, he is putting himself first and then the party next. There is no difference between him and the Congress dynasty. Shame on him and Rajnath Singh. Rajnath Singh so shameless he is still continuing as a president of BJP even after BJP loosing elections statewide in U.P and nationwide.
RSS was right in asking the party to give leadership to a person between 50-60 years.
@ SKG
आवेश में आकर लाल कृष्ण आडवानी जी के बारे में इस तरह की बातें कृपया न करें .शायद आप आडवानी जी को ठीक तरीके से नहीं जानते हैं . आडवानी जी को मैं लम्बे समय से जानता हूँ . आडवानी जी और अटल जी को आपस में लड़वाने की कोशिशें बहुत हुई हैं .लेकिन वो पार्टी की खातिर कभी भी आपस में लड़े नहीं .बल्कि मिल जुलकर पार्टी को आगे बढाया .जिसमे मुरली मनोहर जोशी भी साथ साथ थे .अटल , आडवानी और जोशी जी को कभी लोग त्रिमूर्ति के नाम से भी जानते थे .इन तीनो ने पार्टी के लिए खूब काम किया है . पार्टी को मजबूत बनाने में इन तीन नेताओं ने अपने जीवन में भारत भर की जितनी यात्रायें की शायद ही किसी नेता ने की होगी .यह बात आज की युवा पीढी शायद नहीं जानती है .
Nobody is supporting English Media. BJP needs liberals aswell. Not just hard nuts. BJP needs soft outside hard inside. Absolutely disappointed with the decision. BJP should think 100 times of what the consequence of this action will be.
@Krishna Tarway
Agar LKA itne mahan hote to aaj woh pradhan mantri hote. Janta janardhan (GOD) did not choose mahan neta. He (LKA) is just a greedy man. You do not need post to serve the party.
@ NO Friend of bjp
जसवंत सिंह के निष्कासन से पार्टी पर कोई फर्क नहीं पड़ेगा .क्योंकि आम जनता और बीजेपी समर्थक जसवंत सिंह को अच्छी तरह जानती हैं पहली बात और दूसरी बात– हार के दुसरे अन्य कारण रहे हैं कमियाँ रही हैं .गलतियाँ होती हैं गलतियों को सुधारा जा सकता है .तीसरी बात –क्या महज इस साईट को बीजेपी की आलोचना के लिए ही इस्तमाल होना चाहिए .? यह तो कोई तर्क वाली बात नहीं हुई .यह बात अपने आप में तर्कहीन लगती है .
Krishna Tarway ji, your analysis is correct to some extent regarding the hard work of LKA, MMJ, ABV.
LKA has failed to project himself as a hard worker for BJP. He couldn’t defend himself from the attacks of congress regarding the Kandahar issue. Both MMS and Rahul Maino were attacking LKA and he has no courage to defend himself from these attacks. A party men in M.P throwed a slipper at LKA and LKA had not spoken or presented the facts to the people in that meeting on why he called Jinnah Secular. Jinnah is not a secular leader by any means. If Nehru is responsible for partition, Jinnah is the driving force for partition.
@ skg
आडवानी जी के बारे में यह सब बाते communication गैप की बाते हैं .मानसिक तौर पर नेता चुनाव के समय इतना व्यस्त होते हैं की कई बातें छूट जाती हैं कहने से –विशेषकर पब्लिक मीटिंग में और मीडिया में .यही आडवानी जी भी साथ हुआ .आखिर किस-किस बात पर नेता ध्यान दे .इसी कमजोरी को आने वाले दिनों में पार्टी को ठीक करना है आपकी बातें सही हैं .यह भी हो सकता है की आडवानी जी ने प्रतिक्रिया व्यक्त की हो (आप जो बातें कह रहे हैं )और मीडिया ने उसे दिखाया ही न हो .इस बात की भी सम्भावना हो सकती है .
@ skg
आडवानी जी द्वारा जिन्ना को लेकर कही बातें पार्टी ने आज मीडिया में स्पस्ट कर दी है .उस समय आनन फानन में आडवानी जी को अध्यक्ष पद से हटाया गया था .जो की सर्वथा गलत था .असल में आडवानी जी का वक्तव्य मीडिया में तोड़ मरोड़ कर पेश किया गया था जिसका विरोधी दलों ने भी खूब उछाला था.और आनन फानन में उन्हें अध्यक्ष पद से हटना पड़ा था .और इस बात में कोई दम नहीं .
@ skg
चुनाव के दौरान विरोधी दल का नेता क्या कह रह है ? और उसका क्या जवाब मीडिया में आना चाहिए सभी नेताओं को इस बात की जानकारी होनी चाहिए .यह कम्युनिकेशन गैप का मामला है जिसे आने वाले दिनों में पार्टी को ठीक करना ही होगा .
Today I was very saddened to hear about the fate of Shri Jaswant Singh, someone who was there with BJP for such a long time (around 30 years).
For writing a book based on facts (but with different perception) he is being punished.
I think this makes me feel that despite all the talk of ‘atm-chintan’ the BJP really is not appreciate of diverse view points and intellectual discussions. ( A definite sign of fascism, which believes in controlling opinions and debates).
In fact even Advaniji had said the same thing about Jinnah some years back and at the same time also, the same RSS/BJP hardliners had forced him into a corner.
I think there are some people in BJP/RSS who want to believe their own version of history and would like to keep believing that.
Similarly Modi who was never a democratic and mature person even at the best of times has immediately decided to ban the book in Gujarat. First of all, this banning of books is a gross abuse of power. What right does the government have to ban a book/opinion of a person on historical events? Is the Gujarat government trying to control the thinking of people also….?
I could have understood if the book was banned because it hurts religious sentiments or even too much sexuality. (Of course, personally, being a strong proponent of freedoms I would never believe in banning any book, but considering Modi’s dictatorial personality, it would have been expected). But to ban a book of history, is a total misuse of government powers. The same Modi also wants to give extra powers through special anti-terror act to police so that they can harass people and torture them (especially those opposing Modi).
I think slowly and steadily the BJP is becoming a party of intellectually closed and narrow minded people (just like the congress is a party of those who have to always flatter the Gandhi family) who are not even open for a discussion.
It is indeed a sad day…!!
I think the time has come for all freedom loving and broad-minded people even on this forum to come out with a new party which believes in a liberal, tolerant and intellectually progressive India. {ONE INDIA FOR EVERY INDIAN}.
Not the pro-minority Congress party not the narrow minded BJP party, but a party which believes in liberal,democratic, intellectually free India giving same rights to all Indians irrespective of caste, religion or language and with a uniform civil code for everyone.
jinnah was an evil person how can this man praise him. i should have been happy if jaswant had managed to remark about great calcutta killing or how the partition was done in a way that betrays the interest of hindus and sikhs(though i didn’t read his book but i am sure he never has the guts to touch this topics) instead of throwing mud at sardar patel.
i am not sure how someone can support this jaswant singh for this. what really did he do for bjp. i can only remember him about kandahar episode and about his attempt to promote his son.
calling jinnah a “secular” and calling him a great person is different thing. jinnah was really a secular crook just like other nehru clan leaders from india.
apart from making some fast bucks only other purpose for writing such garbage can be to destabilize bjp in gujarat.
BJP SHOULD KNOW AND REALISE THAT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO JASWANT SINGHJI WILL MAKE THE PARTY PAY HEAVILY WITH FAR REACHING CONSEQUENCES.
PEOPLE OF INDIA DO NOT LIKE ARROGANCE AND POOR TREATMENT AND INSULT METTED OUT TO ANY SENIOR AND RESPECTED LEADER BY A PARTY.
PEOPLE OF INDIA DID NOT DIGEST WHAT CPI-M DID TO SOMNATH CHATTERJEE AND HOW BENGAL CPI-M FOLLOWERS DISLIKING THE ARROGANCE AND INJUSTICE DID DUMP THAT PARTY IN GENERAL ELECTION 2009.
I SEE A SIMILAR FUTURE OF BJP IN COMING DAYS.
I WONDER WHY L.K. ADVANIJI ALLOWED SUCH A STUPID MOVE TO GO THROUGH WHICH WOULD PAVE THE WAY TO DISMANTLE THE BJP IN FUTURE- A PARTY HE HAD CO-FOUNDED?
IT IS PATHETIC.
Have a feeling that it had more to do with criticism of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel than anything else. However, I would like to think that Jaswant himself had probbably developed critics when he boarded the flight that eventually released those people who were indirectly responsible for the Indian airlines plane hijacking. Till today I am not certain why he did that.
What are the achievements of Jaswant Singh ?. This is a good question that needs to be answered. Yes, he is a senior leader and he needs to be respected. However, Jaswant Singh said many contradictory things on the Kandahar episode . He also is saying contradictory things on Jinnah. Jinnah and Nehru are more responsible for partition than any body else . Both managed to get what they wanted with the help of Gandhi. Nehru was a selfish leader, so is Jinnah.
आ गए (S JACOB )बीजेपी के शत्रु घडियाली आंसू बहाने .
Tarwayji,
Your comment itself is representative of the mind-set among many so-called ‘friends of BJP’ who believe that anyone criticising BJP is the enemy of BJP.
I can see that you also follow a similar belief pattern.
But I consider myself a friend of BJP. I feel BJP has many strengths like patriotism, lack of corruption etc. compared to Congress.
However I would like the BJP to be a modern, tolerant, progressive and liberal party which takes India into the future not just economically but also in all human rights and free thinking.
I personally think that LK Advani and Jaswant Singh are intellectuals and this kind of intolerance shown to intellectual views regarding Jinnah is not good for BJP.
In fact if thinkers like Advani and Jaswant have talked about the role of Nehru, Jinnah and Patel in the partition of the country, I think we should permit the nation to analyse this issue in depth, not try to silence the nation by banning the book (as Modi has done) or expel the writer of the book (as the BJP has done).
That sents a message that BJP is intolerant of divergent viewpoints.
Jinna and Nehru divided the country for their own benifit.We cannot justify partion? Jinna wanted a seprate country in the name of Muslims (can you call this deed as secular?) and Nehru a young leader was not ready to give up a post less than priminister. Can any one contradict this.It was the worst thing that India and Pakistan faced & further till date is faceing its conciquence.
They both had their own relations with Lord & Lady Mountbatton. ( agent of colonial rule)
What could you do when so called Independence was given to you on their terms and conditions.
Partition was before Independence so our leaders could not do much.( this is simple what I feel). But the battle was between Nehru & Jinnah and both called very faithful person generated the situation of partition.
If Saddam Hussian can be held responsible for death of so many people than why not these three(Jinnah, Nehru & Mountbatton) be held responsible for death of so many people.
@ S JACOB
आपकी सारी बातें मैंने पढ़ी और इस निष्कर्ष पर पहुंचा हूँ की आप स्वछंद विचारों वाले और सिर्फ स्वतंत्रता ,स्वतंत्रता और स्वतंत्रता की बात करने वाले कर्तव्यहीन , मर्यादाहीन और निरंकुश विचारों वाले व्यक्ति लगते हैं .
@S Jacob
Liberalism (left leaning) and Conservatism (right leaning) are 2 completely different ideologies. I see no reason why BJP should become liberal, Congress already occupies that space. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative. Republican party (USA), Conservative party (UK), Christian Democratic Party (Germany) are all right of center conservative parties and have produced excellent leaders like Abraham Lincoln, Margaraet Tatcher and my favorite Ronnie Reagan.
All the BJP leadership needs to do is brutally frank introspection, take responsiblity and take the party along rather than shut itself in 5 star hotels. And finally the day BJP starts becoming liberal thats when a new Conservative party has to be started.
यह बात सबको याद रखनी चाहिए की जब भी आप देश से या सरकार से आप अधिकारों की मांग करते हैं उसी समय आप बहुत से कर्त्तव्य से भी बंध जाते हैं जिन्हें आपको पालन करना होता है .यहाँ बात राईट और सेंटर विचाधारा की नहीं है .यह सब पर लागू होने वाली बात है .बहुत से अधिकार ऐसे हैं जिन्हें देश, काल , समाज ,संस्कृति और मर्यादा के कारण देश के नागरिकों को नहीं दिए जा सकते .इसीलिए आपने देखा होगा की फिल्मों में सेंसरशिप लागू होती है .ऐसे बहुत से उधाहरण हैं .सेंसरशिप का उधाहरण मैंने एक बहुत ही छोटा उधाहरण दिया है .समय-समय पर सेंसरशिप को भी ख़त्म करने की बातें उठती हैं विचारों की अभिव्यक्ति की स्वतंत्र के लिए .और भी बहुत सी बातें हैं .
When leaders put themselves first rather than the party or the country , this is what happens. Nehru and Jinnah are the worst leaders who ruined the fruits of freedom for Mother India.
Ramu Bhai agreed to your comments. Congress is taking credit for India getting Independence. This is some thing puzzles me all the time. When so called Independence had so many conditions attached to it, how can this party take credit for it.
Statement by Rajnath Singh on the Book.
The Book “Jinnah – India, Partition, Independence” authored by Shri Jaswant Singh does not represent the views of the Bharatiya Janata Party. In fact the Party completely dissociates itself from the contents of the book.
The important role of M.A. Jinnah in the division of India, which led to a lot of dislocation and destabilisation of millions of people, is too well-known. We cannot wish away this painful part of our history.
Sardar Patel played a historic role in the unification and consolidation of India amidst serious threats to its unity and integrity. The entire country remains indebted and proud of the profound vision, courage and leadership of Sardar Patel.
We are FRIENDS of BJP, as we like to identify ourselves.
Now, the big question that haunts us is what is BJP?
Most of us would agree that BJP (The Bharatiya Janata Party) is a major political party in India, which was founded in 1980. In alliance with several other political parties it gained power to govern India first for six years since 1998 to 2004 under the visionary leadership of Sri. Atal Bihary Vapayee. It would never have been possible to dethrone or challenge the Congress except for the genius of Atalji to engineer a grand coalition NDA to come to power to govern India for a change.
The people of India for the first time began to feel the difference in the governance. The NDA government under the leadership of Atalji transformed each ministry of the union government into an efficient and effective point of delivery of services to the people of India. It adopted and implemented some major policy decisions in economy, education, rural and urban development. The people for the first time found in the NDA governance an era of social upliftment, empowerment and direct delivery of services to their welfare.
The ministers hand-picked by Atalji were all dedicated and brought on a change in the functioning of their respective ministries. All were committed to a MISSION to change the face of India and the fate of its people for betterment through a vibrant, active and a effective government.
Never during its regime while in power did BJP ever push in their IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA in the functioning of the governance. No contentious issues of Article 370, Uniform Civil Code or the Ram Temple Construction were put into their agenda of governance.
Now, after BJP lost the election in 2004 for their blunder in trying to sell a slogan ‘Shining India’ instead of their exemplary governance and achievements, the party went back to its IDEOLOGY of HINDUTVA and all of the rest
We are friends to BJP, which is a political outfit in the electoral playfield in India.
Now, the BIG QUESTION staring to us today is: WHAT DOES BJP FEELS IT IS?
We, who accept BJP as a political party would always want to see it to come to power and govern India and its people as it did through 1998 to 2004.
We expect as a major political party the leadership in BJP should also strive to achieve for what it exists and that is to come to power.
But, unfortunately, we see the present leadership in BJP is more attached to its IDEOLOGICAL VALUES which are mostly values drawn in from RSS a voluntary social service organization founded in 1925 in the pre-independent India.
The question is should a political party attach themselves to such a strong bonding with the ideological values and beliefs of a voluntary social service organization, which has no intention to participate in active politics? How can a ideology or values influenced and drawn in from a social service organization help a political party when their goals are never to meet. RSS has a mission to build a society with nationalist, conservative and socialist moral values whereas BJP being a political party has a political goal to obtain power and govern India. In wildest of imagination the two would never meet.
It was surprising to note that a senior leader like Jaswant Singh was expelled for he deviated from that PARTY IDEOLOGY. Now, every Indian is proud of the efforts and achievements of Sardar Ballavbhai Patel for which we hold him in high esteem. RSS as nationalist social service organization can hold him as one of their idols but how can one justify Sardar Patel as the idol of a non-congress political party BJP? Patel was an eminent Congress leader and if any party was to feel the hurt and pain it should have been the Indian National Congress. How can BJP throw out a senior party leader for demeaning Patel?
Having done so, now it has to answer people of India whether it would met out similar action to any of its leader in future if he/she demean Lala Lajpat Rai, Bal Gangadhar Tilak or Netaji Subhash Bose? If not, why only for Patel? One could have understood if it was about Shyama Prasad Mukherjee or Atal Bihary Vajpayee but for Patel?
Finally, about the IDEOLOGY of HINDUTVA.
What is this HINDUTVA. We hear so many interpretations of this term but one fails to understand how does it fit in the concept of political governance? It is perfectly okay of RSS as being nationalist social service organization it has a mission and a dream of build a ideal Indian society. How can that be an ideology of a political party who wants to come to power and govern India winning through electoral process? There is no scope of any other ideology for a political party except to provide a effective and strong governance to the people of India with an agenda of development of the nation and its people.
It remains vague in understanding to the people how BJP can sustain in Indian politics if it continues to remain tied to the shackles in the domain of its flawed ideology.
Jaswantji gave an opportunity to unshackle all of that but the opportunity was wasted by the decayed wisdom of the present party leadership.
IF THERE IS NO WISDOM IN CORRECTING THE FAULTLINE I FEEL BJP WILL BE DUMPED BY THE PEOPLE AND ITS FRIENDS AND THIS WEBSITE WILL HAVE TO SHUT DOWN SOON.
Anshuman,
BJP has become a mockery. They is no cohesion, no uniting leader of Vajpayee stature, not even that of Pramod Mahajan! Why bother, jump the ship before it capsizes.
But seriously existence of BJP is needed for one cause to be a strong opposition, instead of plethora of small parties to keep the mighty Congress on it’s toes.
उगते सूरज को सभी सलाम करते हैं डूबते सूरज को कोई सलाम नहीं करता .यही हाल बीजेपी के आलोचकों का है .दक्षिण में मिली असंभावित सफलता ने कांग्रेस को सत्ता पर पहुँचाया . यह कोई आलोचक नहीं बोल रहा .वर्ना कांग्रेस ने कोई ऐसा तीर नहीं छोड़ा था की लोग उसे सत्ता तक पहुंचा देते .इसलिए बीजेपी के बारे में गैरजरूरी टिप्पणियां मुझे तो थोथी लगती हैं .
Our efforts should be to strengthen BJP . If we don’t strengthen it, Congress will monopolise India. Congress monoply is disastrous for Majority Hindus. They will import Bangladeshi illegal immigrants increase minority vote banks, they will sell India to Arabic religions and make India another Iran or Pakistan or bangladesh. Congress will be a disaster to India. They will protect people like M.F.Hussain in the name of art, will not do any thing to punish Dawood Ibrahim, will not try to bring Swiss money back to India. It’s dictator ship style of working will be a catastrophy.
Yes, BJP has problems, because of the egos of certain section of leaders. There is a confusion on ideology. However, BJP needs RSS . As long as BJP needs RSS , BJP will depend on its ideology. BJP can never get minority votes and it will have to depend on RSS for consolidating Hindu votes.
Ansuman…… Thanks for your enlightening piece.
You have hit the nail on the head.
We all fail to understand how a party which plays the part of principal oposition party against the Congress is so much engrossed in worshipping a staunch Congressman Sardar Patel as its idol so far as they can throw out a senior cerebral leader as Mr. Jaswant Singh. He did criticize the roles played by Nehru and Patel both Congressmen yet BJP gets hurt as if they have no idol of their own and had to borrow one from Congress for worshipping and idolising.
Jokers and pseudo-BJP men like Jaitley, Rajnath must resign
कांग्रेस का तुष्टिकरण पुनः शुरू
क्योंकि महाराष्ट्र विधान सभा चुनाव नजदीक है इसलिए महाराष्ट्र की कांग्रेस सरकार ने अपना सांप्रदायिक कार्ड खेलना शुरू कर दिया है . महाराष्ट्र की कांग्रेस सरकार द्वारा कुछ पुलिस अफसरों पर एक आंतकवादी के फर्जी एनकाउंटर का मुक़दमा दायर किया गया है .
यानी मुस्लिम तुष्टिकरण के साथ-साथ कांग्रेस का आंतकवादियों का तुष्टिकरण करना फिर से शुरू कर दिया है .कांग्रेस अपनी हरक़तों से बाज नहीं आने वाली. इस मुद्दे को महाराष्ट्र के लोगों के सामने बीजेपी को रखना चाहिए .कहा जाता है की यह एनकाउंटर कई महीने पहले ही हुआ था .लेकिन चूँकि विधान सभा का चुनाव नजदीक है इसलिए कांग्रेस ने अपना साम्प्रदयिक खेल फिर से शुरू कर दिया है .और उन पुलिस अफसरों पर फर्जी एनकाउंटर का झूठा केस दायर कर दिया है .
इसके पहले भी एनकाउंटर स्पेस्लिस्ट पर महाराष्ट्र की कांग्रेस सरकार ने झूठे मुक़दमे दायर कर चुकी है . यह १ -२ साल पहले की बात है . और हाई कोर्ट में कांग्रेस की सरकार को मुँह की खानी पड़ी थी और केस हार गयी थी .इसकी चर्चा मैंने इसी साईट पर लोक सभा चुनाव के दौरान की थी .लेकिन मुंबई आंतकवादी काण्ड के बाद सरकार पर दबाव पड़ने के कारण उन्ही अफसरों को नौकरी में बहाल करना पड़ा था .क्योंकि वे कोर्ट द्वारा निर्दोष साबित हुए थे .अब फिर से चुनाव नजदीक आते ही कांग्रेस ने अपना रंग दिखाना शुरू कर दिया है .
मीडिया भी हिस्सेदार
मुझे मालूम है इस बात की चर्चा मीडिया करने वाली नहीं है .क्योंकि मेरा मानना है की इस मुस्लिम तुष्टिकरण के खेल में मीडिया भी बराबर की हिस्सेदार है .जबकि मीडिया को इस बात की चर्चा करनी चाहिए . मुंबई के जाबांज़ पुलिस अफसरों पर पहले भी कांग्रेस की सरकार ने मुक़दमे दायर किये थे और उन मुक़दमों में सरकार की हार भी हुई थी .
Congress is the enemy of India and Hindus.
Jaitley said the following while responding to Jaswant’s expulsion
“Alienation of Muslims in the country is also against the party line,”
Fair enough
What you say and what you write is fine, but no party can give its member the liberty that while remaining the frontline leader you opt to go against the basic ideology or belief or talk publicly against it
What did Jaswant say in his book that went against party ideology which is Hindutva? Does anyone know?
“” मेरा भारत महान “”
जिस बात की चर्चा मीडिया को करनी चाहिए . उस बात की चर्चा हम आम जनता को करनी पड़ रही है ये है “”मेरा भारत महान “” .और इस महान देश की महान मीडिया और महान धर्मनिरपेक्षता .
Jaitley said the following while responding to Jaswant’s expulsion
“Alienation of Muslims in the country is also against the party line,”
Fair enough
Jaitley went to say
“What you say and what you write is fine, but no party can give its member the liberty that while remaining the frontline leader you opt to go against the basic ideology or belief or talk publicly against it”
What did Jaswant say in his book that went against party ideology which is Hindutva? Does anyone know?
Islamic Clerics, Islamic Mullahs are requally responsible for the alienation of Muslims in India. They preach hatred towards non-believers, preach intolerance in their mosques, hatred towards Hindu culture, preach glories of Mughal intolerant rulers like Aurangazeb, threaten people who speak against them through people like Owaisi, indulge in anti-national activities, support people like Dawood ibrahim, raise pakistani flag etc. etc….
The present BJP leadership is ill-educated to read the book of Jaswant Singh leave aside understanding the contents.
What they were saying on tv channels about Patel showed how ill-educated they were about the history of India and about Patel. They just want to worship Patel as their mascot for reasons which they don’t have any knowledge about.
Role of Patel was much more distinct in partition and Jaswant Singh mentioned none of it.
खामोश हैं कांग्रेसी —मेरे द्वारा उठाये गए मुद्दे पर .सांप सूंघ गया लगता है .
“I feel once the elections are over and a party is in power it becomes GOVERNMENT OF INDIA and the party should not take credit of any achievements as that leads to alienate the governement from the society and the people. No party should take credit for government’s functioning as it is the Government of the people by the people for the people and not a political party” — LOL
i hope the BJP top brass has more sense than this!
@SKG: MF Hussain is one of India’s greatest artists and it is anational shame that he is living out of India now… If you are allowed ur freedom of expression, he should be allowed his…
Amitji,
Let us dispose this point off first:
Virility is not always a virtue.Whether it is individual, religious, national or international. America tried this idea during the Vietnamese war and found that the latter were simply more virile, despite their smaller sizes ;)-
Historically speaking Hinduism has its reasons for taking the non-virile path it has.
If you read American history you will find that the Americans had to be dragged on to the international stage by their politicians during the World Wars. And even today, other than the politicians, average Americans hardly look beyond their country. This is primarily because their nation itself is large and provides a large enough stage for their aspirations. Their world was and is big enough.
The same logic applies to Hinduism, it already had a major stage to itself, a stage that came not by conquering but by default. At one stage, the whole of Asia was Hindu or influenced by Hinduism’s ideas and ideals. Most of it still is.
Had there been a connecting land mass even early America would have been ours. Notice that it helps that the geography of these areas was more or less similar. Yes it matters…
Given such a large base of operations, there was simply no missionary zeal to thrust forward. Notice that very few of the Asian kings did really fight to capture more territory, they were more intent on capturing the major share of their own territory much like business conglomerates do today.
Concurrent to that politico physical reality was another major technical stumble, unlike the external missionary zeal that drive the monotheistic religions, Hinduism as it grew away from the Vedas developed into a inward looking religion, towards finding the truth, which it said was within, and within an individual, there even the words of the Gods have no sway.
Remember that even Ramakrishna Paramahansa, guru of our own modern Vivekananda, had to cut his Kali in half to ascend to the higher realms of Hindu thought. Almost all Hindu gurus have always been blasphemous of the current state of their religion, even the current ones are. Just listen to some of them speak…
It is to the credit of Hinduism that such a stance which would be seen as blasphemous in any other religion was taken as a natural consequence of this inward driven search.
(Oh and for those who think Swami Ramdev is a Hindu guru, he is not, he is merely a good technician who has been temporarily elevated to guru status)
The true Hindu is said to be one who undertakes a journey into himself, which is what even the new age gurus are saying, albeit in a manner suitable for the modern world, and which is why they and their ideas are acceptable in any nation, creed and time.
A recent poll in the US says that the intrinsic religious ideas of its people and their practices mirror Hindu thought more than Christian thought. Hindu thought naturally finds more acceptability than is currently thought or known to the mavens of Hindutva. What need for virility then?
Notice that the highest concepts of the Hindus are acceptable even to the science of today, something that is simply not true of any other major religion, who are generally mocked (today) for their obscurantist views.
Now that legacy is something we can really be proud of… like the West is proud of their Socrates and Plato.
Let us get this clear, for the true Hindu, his true domain is the Universe, nay, it even surpasses it. All domains fall within the infinite swoop of the true Hindu.
In that sense, Hinduism is truly the se(c)t of all se(c)ts. To bring down these great concepts to ground simply on an issue of virility is to do this great religion, its ideas and its history a great disservice.
Given that understanding, one should understand that there is no point in looking up to Hinduism for a mandate for exhibitions of virility. It is simply not there.
No wonder then that icons like Savarkar or Aurobindo are not taken seriously either by practicing Hindus or their present day gurus and priests like say the ideas of the first Sankharacharya were.
It remains sadly true that while the ideas of the Upanishads can shock you into higher realms of thought, those of Aurobindo can put you to sleep.
I doubt if Swamy read him in the first place. As to Savarkar, he is simply a religious juvenile.
Almost every practicing Hindu knows that the concepts of nation have nothing to do with their religious practices, in other words there is simply no Bharata Mata in our religious iconography, and even if she were there she would be ignored simply because there is no prior religious sanction.
It is also typical of the Hindu that the saints of all nations are their saints too, the idea of such assimilation is natural to the religion itself. A reverence for all religions and its saints is the Indian’s natural state, and it is difficult to fight it, at least for a long time.
Let us accept this base truth. Hinduism is a search for truth and a compendium of practices that derive from this search for truth and the smaller goals of nationalism or self pride are not part of this agenda.
In trying to highlight Hinduism as an aid to Hindutva, we are fighting a battle we are destined to lose, at least in the long term.
Given the reality that we cannot look for nationalistic inputs from the Hindu religion, we find it easy to understand why the BJP and its so called nationalistic concurrents find the going tough. Their idea of a nationalist revival based on religion is not going anywhere.
Add to this badly chosen icons like Savarkar and Aurobindo, notice that despite his photos being everywhere, even Vivekananda make no sense to the practicing Hindu or excites him in any way. When was the last time any of you prayed to Vivekananda, or Savarkar for that matter?
It is high time that Hindutvites abandoned these funny icons and look to more modern ones, but sadly the pantheon is not only small but is generally taken. There is a real paucity of national level icons, even the Congress has had few to choose from.
The most virile exhibition of Indian nationalism was during the Indo Pak wars. It had nothing to do with the nationalism of the Hindutvites, it is natural that when a country is at war, its people rise to defend themselves.
Other than cricket wars, no subsequent event has provoked the Indian national to such displays of nationalistic pride including, one should sadly say, the recent Bombay terror attacks. If you want evidence, listen to the patriotic songs and movies of that era, and compare it to the paucity of such stuff in this new era.
I think the Hindutvites should forget the idea of looking upto Hinduism as a metaphor or driver for national virility. In looking that way they are merely wasting the national spirit that they are naturally imbued with, I can see that many of the people writing her have the nation’s best interests at heart.
And it would be nice if the old bogeys that inhabit the dusty pigeon holes of Hindutva realise this. They have been bred on the milk of a limited nationalism that they see espoused in Sivaji and his small time antics. Sivaji was no more than the Paris Hilton of his day, driven by personal choices more than any national view.
Our true problem is that we have a lack of virile nationalism that seems to set us back from our rightful place in the, to use a cliche, the comity of nations.
We must first be clear that we cannot look for such virility from religious bases, not only is the idea obscurantist, it will simply fail to work in the case of the Hindu religion. In highlighting our religious differences we are merely creating fodder for future terrorism and gaining nothing at all.
Such a stance will be clearly upsetting to the many who clamor here but that is the truth. If you begin to be proud that you are a Hindu, the rest of discrimination naturally follows.
I am a Northerner, I am a Rajput, I am of this caste, I am of this creed, this path is the path to future disintegration.
Let us simply accept that we have more worrying problems than virile nationalism and those with the country’s interests at heart would do well to work where that work is required. Also the need for a priapic demonstration is simply not there, whatever Swamy may say.
What we need to encourage and consolidate is the need to look at issues from a national perspective, even if that perspective was forced on us by the English. And to shift the national focus from our differences to our similarities.
To that let us all work.
@ JOYJIT
एम् एफ हुसैन कानून के भगोडे हैं. उनपर एक मक़दमा दायर किया गया है .देश के कानून का और देश का इतना ही सम्मान करते तो आज वो देश के कानून से नहीं भागते . वह देश से बाहर नहीं रह रहे बल्कि वे तो कानूनी भगोडे हैं . शर्म तो उन्हें आनी चाहिए की वो कानून से भागे हुए भगोडे हैं .
@Kho
Jaswant ji hadn’t written anything in the book (as much as I have read) that goes against party ideology. At 6 place in the 660+ page book he mentions Sardar Patel and that too as a collection of facts from news paper reports saying that he agreed with Nehru on some aspects of partition. If someone from the party says he went against ideology in this book then I need further education of the party ideology after following it closely for 15 years.
The thing about alienation of muslims was told by him in an interview with Karan Thapar on CNN-IBN. Also in the same interview he praised Jinnah saying that he was a self made man, but he always opposed the partition and held Jinnah and Nehru guilty.
If the party had other reasons like indiscipline for his sacking they could have put them fwd instead of this facade of a book!
M.F.Hussain has misused the freedom of art by paiting Mother India naked and Mother Sita naked along with Hanuman. If you really want to do some art there are so many themes. The theme of painting mother India shows the disrespect he has for the Hindu society and to Indian nation. How can people advocate tolerance to such people.
M.F.Hussain may be a good artist as some say but
what I feel his activities suggest that he is not a good human what (he is mentally ill).
To be a good artist you should not make nude painting of any dignity or respected person.
a mentally ill person should be in hospital(Pagal Khana or in his home), so is he.
Bhagwat Geeta and Ramayana are the Greatest epic which India has given to the world.
Till date I have read them only 5 times, the more i read it the more i feel that i missed these words before and more i realise that i had very little knowledge about Sanatan Dharma.
If any of you are intrested please do read them.
M.F.Hussain is the product of Intolerance preached in Islam towards Kaafirs. Mullahs and clerics should be jailed just like they jailed Varun Gandhi, whenever they preach hatred towards Kaafirs.
Whatever the issue may be…MF Hussain or any other which denigrate Hindu religion and its beliefs shouldn’t they be countered by the Government of India in power at that time and the Hindu Religious Organzations/Leaders?
How can protection of any religion be the core agenda of a political party?
BJP is just trapped in the mindset of enacting the role of protector of Hindu Religion in India which can never be the role of any major political party in India whose sole aim should be to provide STRONG GOVERNENCE to the people of India. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.
It is for this distinct role being played out by BJP time and again umder the shadow of RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal that has derived the party from having a polical future in Indian Polity. It has unnecessarily allowed itself to be branded as a SAFFRON PARTY with a religious mindset and agenda.
To be successful in present Indian Political scene BJP has to behave more as Political Party and not as a religious organization.
A political combination with religious mindset and agenda has no place in present day Indian political space.
The rise of BJP from the Ayodhya Movement had significance in 1990s for the then political atmosphere after the Shah Bano Case handled poorly by Rajiv Gandhi. But that wave has blown out and it no more exist today. No election can be won by any political party today by invoking Hindu Religious sentiments anymore.
Todays India and its electorate have come a long way and they are no more rooted strongly to their religions. All have changed with the wave of leberalization and globalization. Boundaries have broken apart and no one is anymore dogmatic of the religious beliefs. There is a wave in India now as they say ‘SAB CHALTA HAI’.
A political party cannot remain insulated to this change that has taken place around in the society and the people’s thinking and views.
Nothing unites India anymore than a Development Agenda. People are interested in improving their life and living facilities. Religion is in its place but it is a non-issue as to their expectations from a political party.
BJP has to change and re-invent itself to be relevant in todays India. If it fails to do so it will succum and crumble tangled in its decaying core ideology which has lost its shelf life long ago.
Hope wisdom prevails as India needs a strong political alternative not a religious one for its democracy to remain vibrant.
joyjit ji,
(If you are allowed ur freedom of expression, he should be allowed his…)
is this the way to express your freedom in a democratic socity.
If yes,
than why do the police catch hold of people who go out nacked he/she also should be allowed freedom of expression.
a making comments on a near and dear one will he be allowed in the name of freedom of expression
Development agenda was part of the NDA government. It did more than what Congress did in 42 years of rule. Construction of Golden quadrilateral express way taken by BJP led NDA.
Infact under BJP rule in Gujarat, it is way ahead of any other states in infrastructure development . Karnataka under BJP rule is finishing some major infrastructural project like NANDI and Bangalore Metro . In M.P, Chauhan under BJP rule has successfully implemented good schemes for women and BPL families.
Infact BJP led NDA is less corruptive than congress led UPA.
In A.P, the crook YSR and his son under congress rule has amassed nearly thousands of crores of money for their projects like Sakshi T.V, Sakshi Newspaper, Bahmani Cements etc.
BJP is just not fighting for Hindus, it is also giving good governance in some important states.
The internal fighting in Rajasthan had a setback for BJP .
Mohan,
I think Jaswant should have waited before publishing this controversial book - I cannot think of any other senior contemporary politician in India or USA who has been as irresponsible in choosing to right such a controversial book while saying in office. What he wrote may very well be true but it is easy to see that Cong I would have used this to their electoral advantage in future had BJP not sacked him.
Ravi,
I agree with you that BJP should rename its ideology from Hindutva to something like Bharatayata because Hindutva means Indian-ness and has no religious connotation.
Having said that I think there is a need for BJP to establish secularism by:
challenging Congress’s minority appeasement policies;
freeing religous institutions from the clutches of a government which calls itself secular;
opposing religous conversions that are due to force and direct material inducements.
There are many Indians who are concerned about these issues as well and BJP will gain support from that group if they act along those lines.
Yes, Congress has already attacked LKA on Jinnah Issue. It would have used the Jaswant’s comments on Jinnah easily and would have attacked them as people supporting the traitors like Jinnah. Congress can’t be believed. I wish both LKA and Jaswant should have resigned voluntarily for making comments on Jinnah. This would have been the best thing for the party. I don’t know why LKA wants to still control the party when he could have given that responsibility to some young leader.
Guys, it is high time LKA resigns voluntarily. All most all the newspapers internationally are writing bad things about BJP. It is important that stubborn LKA and his supporters like Jaitley,Sushma, Modi allows him to retire graciously. These people have no idea on what is really hurting the party. Time has come for LKA to go. 82 is too old and he should retire.
@Ramu bhai: Going naked in the streets is not allowed as per our laws but still our sadhus do that and I dont see anyone beating them up…
But thats a different issue, MF Hussain has his right to draw whatever he wants in the way he wants.. And trust me he is not the only one to do this, there have been many artists like ganesh Pyne, raja Ravi verma who have depicted our ‘gods and goddesses’ in nude/semi nude. the problem is we think our religion is so flimsy that it will be shaken by a few paintings, i am afraid you are wrong sir!
@Krishna Tarway: Hussain did not not flee the country for the case against him but for the ‘threats’ that he was getting… the case is inconsequential because he can easily get a lawyer and get the case dismissed but then he cannot be sure about a group of religious nut bags trying to prove their allegiance to their religion!
Joyjit, M.F.Hussain hasn’t even apologised for his paintings . Also, Tasleema Nasreen is going through the same fate for writing against Islam and Prophet Mohammed. Why can’t people like you who are the heroes of secularism write the same thing about Islamic fanaticism ?. You guys want to get a kick by bashing Hindus and Hindu groups in the name of secularism, freedom of rights, art. Can you stop Sultan Salauddin Owaisi and his religious nut bags to stop throwing shoes and chairs at Tasleema Nasreen ?. Can you ask all the religious fanatic groups operating in and around Calcutta stop threatening Tasleema Nasreen. Can you ask Bengal government and government of India to protect Tasleema Nasreen ?.
@ joyjit
एम एफ हुसैन कोर्ट में सरेंडर कर सकते हैं .लेकिन वो गिरफ़्तारी के डर से देश से भागे हुए हैं. क्योंकि वो जानते हैं की जैसे ही वो एयरपोर्ट पर पहुंचेंगे वो पुलिस द्वारा गिरफ्तार कर लिए जायेंगे .क्योंकि वो जानते हैं की वो कानून के भगोडे हैं .वो नहीं चाहते की पुलिस द्वारा हाथ में हथकडी डालकर वो गिरफ्तार कर लिए जाएँ .वो पिटने के डर से नहीं भागे हुए हैं .
I do not think that we have lost our value to such an extent that we are consedering to every thing right in terms of art even …..
This is why we BJP is beeing wanted in power to save the moral values of this country. so that we can change the polluted enviornment and mind of the people.
vandae matram….
@SKG: Wats happened with Tasleema or even with the Danish cartoons is also pathetic! but then we always curse the ‘Talibans’, well thanks to events like these are right behind them on the same stupid way!
@ joyjit
बीजेपी विरोधी लोग एक और नयी परंपरा विकसित कर रहे हैं और वह है की जब भी कोई अनुशासन , मर्यादा , नैतिकता की बात करे उसकी तुलना आप तालिबानियों से कर दो .तालिबानियों से इस प्रकार की तुलना करना यह अपने आप में एक गैरजिम्मेदाराना व्यवहार और तर्क है .इस प्रकार की तुलना करना समाज और देश के लिए घातक हो सकता है .यदि इसी प्रकार अनुशासन , मर्यादा , नैतिकता की तुलना तालिबानियों से सिर्फ राजनीतिक कारणों से की जाती रहेगी तो अनुशासन मर्यादा, नैतिकता नाम की चीज समाज में नहीं बचेगी .
Hmm so since you dont have an answer to my question, my logic is in fault! how funny!
I just hope BJP gets its act together because wihtout a strong opposition, the ruling party will cease to have the same vigor in working hard…
Joyjit, M.F.Hussain derives his ideology from the Islamic ideology of disrespect towards Kaafirs and treating lower than the animals. This is the state of all non-believers in a Islamic state. Islam believes that they need to be subdued, taxed and eventually be converted to Islam. As a minority, all the Islamic leaders in India want to make India a supreme Islamic state. Islam and secularism don’t go together. The reason, I am writing all this is Islamic intolerance is based on their supression of Kaafirs, however Hindu intolerance towards M.F.Hussain’s paintings is based on self-respect for their religion and their mother India.
पैसा पब्लिक का प्रचार कांग्रेस का
हरियाणा की कांग्रेस सरकार द्वारा पब्लिक के पैसा का बेजा इस्तमाल किया जा रहा है .जन संपर्क सूचना विभाग ,हरयाणा सरकार द्वारा टीवी पर विज्ञापन दिखाए जा रहे हैं जिसमे मुख्य मंत्री और सोनिया गाँधी की तस्वीरों को इस्तमाल किया गया है जो की सर्वथा गलत है .यह विज्ञापन एक सरकारी विभाग का है , फिर नेताओं की तस्वीरें विज्ञापन में क्या कर रही हैं .? बीजेपी को इस मुद्दे को उठाना चाहिए .
Congress leader Sonia is ruling the country unterrupetdly like Queen Victoria . She is naming all the project in the country after Rajiv. Airports are getting Rajiv’s name, bridges are getting Rajiv’s name, schemes are getting Rajiv’s name, public money is used left and right for the party publicity and government is being used by Congress party in all possible ways.
There is no apposition and apposition is becoming weak because of weak BJP president. Hope party will replace this enept BJP president and replace him with a competitive and intelligent president.
गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों —— जयचंदों की जमात में मुझे भी शामिल करना चाहते थे …? . अंग्रेज के चाटुकारों .पश्चिमी संस्कृति के दलालों , असुरों ,रावण के वंसजों , विभिष्नो .अंग्रेजी संस्कृति की कीचड़ से पैदा हुए देश के कपूतों .
KIT KAT
SKG
RAJAT JAIN
PREET
krishnan
potential friend
manoharan
dhawan
anand
abcd
shoemaker
harish
sagar
suhel
तुम सब लोगों की असलियत मैं बहुत पहले ही जान चुका था .लेकिन मैंने सोच की चलो जब तक ये लोग लिख रहे हैं लिखने दो मेरा क्या ? तुम सब की पोल इलेक्शन के पहले ही खुल चुकी थी और किसने खोली थी तुम्हारी पोल …..? वह इतनी आसानी से मैं नहीं बताने वाला …….किश्तों में मैं बताऊंगा . आगे जो कुछ भी होगा वह मेरी जिमेद्दारी नहीं होगी .
मेरी राय रखे जाने पर मेरी जासूसी शुरू हो गयी है ! .क्या यही है बीजेपी .? सब छद्म नामो से अपनी राय रखते हैं
( उल्टा चोर कोतवाल को डांटे ) मैं ही हूँ जो सिर्फ पूरा नाम अपना लिखता हूँ . उल्टा चोर कोतवाल को डांटे वाली कहावत
यहाँ फिट बैठती है .अपनी असली पहचान तो लोगों ने छुपा राखी है और चले हैं मेरी जासूसी करने .फिर तो एक कहावत और
उनपर फिट बैठती है चोर की दाढ़ी में तिनका .
बीजेपी के जिन जिन नेताओं को मुझे जानकारी देनी थी वह मैंने दे दी है की friends of bjp ki साईट पर क्या खेल चल रहा है .
Tarwayji has said correctly, that we cannot compare Taliban regime with any of the BJP ruled states.
But we must clearly understand that issues like morality or culture or language should not be forced upon people, but convinced through discussion,dialogue and discourse.
Whenever any of these things are forced upon people, it means we are becoming closer to talibanization.
गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों गिरगिटों —— जयचंदों की जमात में मुझे भी शामिल करना चाहते थे …? . अंग्रेज के चाटुकारों .पश्चिमी संस्कृति के दलालों , असुरों ,रावण के वंसजों , विभिष्नो .अंग्रेजी संस्कृति की कीचड़ से पैदा हुए देश के कपूतों .
KIT KAT
SKG
RAJAT JAIN
PREET
krishnan
potential friend
manoharan
dhawan
anand
abcd
shoemaker
harish
sagar
सुहेल
ओव्सेर्वेर
dev
ramu bahi
s jacob
तुम सब लोगों की असलियत मैं बहुत पहले ही जान चुका था .लेकिन मैंने सोच की चलो जब तक ये लोग लिख रहे हैं लिखने दो मेरा क्या ? तुम सब की पोल इलेक्शन के पहले ही खुल चुकी थी और किसने खोली थी तुम्हारी पोल …..? वह इतनी आसानी से मैं नहीं बताने वाला …….किश्तों में मैं बताऊंगा . आगे जो कुछ भी होगा वह मेरी जिमेद्दारी नहीं होगी .
मेरे बारे में पार्टी ऑफिस से पता कर लेते तो शायद मेरे बारे में अनाप शनाप लिखने की हिम्मत नहीं तुम सब लोगों की ..तुम सब तो कच्चे खिलाडी निकले …..कहाँ गयी अंग्रेजों की होशियारी .? हवा हो गयी क्या ……..?
बार बार नाम बदलकर लिखने से क्या फायदा ..? तुम लोगों की पोल तो एक विदेशी मीडिया चैनल ने खोल दी थी . किसने खोली थी ? ऑफिस में बैठकर सोचते रहो.
K.Tarwar ji
mana ki aap hindi type karnay va bolnay mae prakand pandit hai par yaha forum angragi mai tha aur puray vishva ka liya jisay bharat ka aur videsh ka viyakti aaram sae pad sakta hai.
jis viyakti ko computer ki jankari hogi usae agraeji jaroor aati hogi.
aap kae vichar bahut acchay hain kripa isay jari rakhayn bhalae hi aap kae nick naam sae.
dhanya-vad.
Media Professional from New York on March 29th, 2009 1:37 pm Has anyone at Friends of BJP conveyed the following to the BJP management?
TO THE BJP’S TOP MANAGEMENT….DEVELOP YOUR OWN MEDIA POWER SOON OR THE BJP HAS NO FUTURE….SERIOUSLY!!!!
I am a sincere sympathizer of the BJP, hence this negative tone in my comments. And I am sorry but there is no other way to digest this bitter pill.
BJP’s media management team should either be fired or revamped immediately. In all these years, the party has yet to start or develop a high-reach and influential pro-BJP television channel or newspaper (except the tiny Daily Pioneer) among other media vehicles, whether it’s in India or outside.
I myself have tried to get in touch with BJP’s media cell a few times on my various trips to India within the past three years, but with no success. The few individuals that I did manage to speak to came across as typical Indian government employees; IGNORANT, UNCONCERNED and UNRESPONSIVE.
The party management obviously doesn’t seem to understand the importance of media, communications and networking for political and national success.
Are the folks running the media cell friends of the BJP? I believe that this is a very serious issue that has cost the BJP many national and state elections so far. It’s image within India and outside has taken a beating time and again inspite of it’s good intentions.
TO THE BJP….Firstly, please develop or redevelop a proper think-tank before it’s too late. And when I say THINK-TANK, I mean a PROPER THINK-TANK, not an apology for a think-tank.
Secondly, please CHANNELIZE all this pro-BJP energy coming in from various quarters systematically and sensibly; else, this ENTIRE “Friends of BJP” exercise will be in vain and become the butt of jokes in the media like “India Shining” did. I personally believe in the sincerity and potential of “Friends of BJP”, and hence would not want this to happen. Also because failure is not an option.
THE BOTTOMLINE SUGGESTION WITH RESPECT TO DEVELOPING CLOUT WITHIN THE MEDIA — “KARO YA MARO”. AND IT’S NOW OR NEVER.
Jai Hind. Jai Bharat.
Dear media profesional and all others
I am interested in starting and helping a new media channel for BJP
Pl. mail me at phrhindia@gmail.com
it has become absolutely necessary.
rakesh
ALARMING NEWS ON THE ISSUE OF EXTERNAL SECURITY
Let the BJP and others make nation-wide agitations regarding this matter. In matters of China, we seem to be following hush-hush policy and scared of annoying the Chinese. This is going to be disastrous. There should be open debate within our country on whether we are strong enough to fight China.
Cutting and pasting the news on China below:
(http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/After-LAC-incursions-China-now-violates-Intl-Border-in-Ladakh/articleshow/4978371.cms
The Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, recognised as International border by India and China, and painted the boulders and rocks with red spray paint, official sources said.
The incursions were reported from the area, generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh, and painted “China” in Cantonese with Red spray paint all over the boulders and rocks, they said.
The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as “fair princess of snow” by Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and regarded as International border by the two countries.
The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written “China” and “China” all over the place, the sources said.
When asked to comment on the issue, an Army spokesperson declined to answer any queries regarding this saying it was an operational matter.)